The Pace of Transformation with Matt Alder
Talent acquisition transformation is happening at a pace we've never seen before. Make sure you are keeping pace with your competitors by listening to current trends with Matt Alder.
Find Matt here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattalder/
[Transcribed from video above]
00:05.20
Brad Owens
Welcome in everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the transform recruiting podcast I'm the host Brad Owens but with me today I maybe have the I don't know if I call you the o g host like the host of recruiting looking into the future. Mr Matt Alder
00:21.86
Matt Alder
Um, hi there so play. It's always a pleasure to be on other people's podcasts as I have to think of the write the questions and all that kind of stuff. So thank you very much for having me on.
00:22.57
Brad Owens
Welcome to the show. Sir.
00:30.38
Brad Owens
Right? Well, it was interesting. You jumped on and everyone you might hear a little bit of audio difference. It turns out people that host podcasts have pretty good audio setups right? It does so a little better audio quality for everyone today all right? So Mr recruiting future.
00:40.62
Matt Alder
Um, yeah, it kind of comes with the territory.
00:48.94
Brad Owens
Tell us a little bit about yourself so people get an idea of where your perspective's coming from today.
00:53.29
Matt Alder
Yeah, absolutely so Matt older I run and host the recruiting future podcast I've been doing that now for 8 years in fact I think it's eight years this week so um a happy birthday to the podcast. So it's been it's been a it's been a long time. Um.
01:01.62
Brad Owens
Um, congratulations. Yeah.
01:08.63
Matt Alder
My podcast looks at the future of recruiting I talk to heads of tar acquisition heads of talent senior h r people thought leaders in the industry and also people outside of the industry with some really interesting perspectives on where technology might take us I also write books I've written 2 books about recruiting and talent acquisition. Do a lot of speaking and genuinely generally do a lot of research into um into our space and.
01:35.78
Brad Owens
Gotcha so content master.
01:39.46
Matt Alder
Well I wouldn't go that far. But um, you know happy to happy to wear that hat. He'll give it to me.
01:42.37
Brad Owens
I will today that be perfect for you all right? So as the person who looks into all of this. What is the future of recruiting and why do you think that.
01:56.24
Matt Alder
Okay, well, that's a that's a very that's a very broad question. Ah yeah, absolutely yes, kind of start at that level. Well I think let me start by saying that this year. What's happening.
01:58.48
Brad Owens
Can I start with that softball.
02:11.93
Matt Alder
In recruiting thai acquisition. You know I think is really interesting. We've we've obviously had several years of disruption you know due to the pandemic. Everyone quitting everyone hiring again. All kinds of um, you know all kinds of sort of disruption and and crazy things happening. During that time we've seen the unrelentless sort of pace in terms of the increase in sophistication of technology. So this has kind of been going on and I think we're kind of now at this really interesting point. So first of all, it's really impossible to say. What was going on in recruiting in 2023 because I don't think that we can simplify or generalize um the current market conditions. So on the 1 hand you know very high profile layoffs in tech going on all over the world on the other hand lots of companies. Desperate for ah you know tech skills. Um at the same time you know lots of skill shortages in lots of different places. Lots of people with budgets being cut. Lots of people kind of hiring at a million miles an hour and I can't remember a time in all the years that I've been in this space when it's just been so all over the place. Like that. However I think what is very clear is we're seeing an acceleration in the evolution of tower acquisition and and that might be driven by economic factors. So you know people are having to work with smaller budgets do less with more or they're struggling to to.
03:48.45
Matt Alder
Hire people. Um, and also you know technology is is a huge factor here in terms of how we how we move forward. So um, you know Ai automation personalization. These are all things that are going to shake up our space and make the work that we do look. Sort of very different moving forward.
04:08.87
Brad Owens
Yeah, and it's Interesting. You mentioned that dichotomy. Ah we have like these very focused more niche firms which everyone's like get into do a niche firm and then anyone who focuses on tech right now is like ah what do I do But then you have you know like the high volume I don't know like manufacturing type. Ah, recruiting firms that are still like what are you all talking about I I can't find candidates right.
04:27.27
Matt Alder
Yeah, and health care and you know all those all those kind of things as well. so so so yeah it's some you you know I think normally on recruiting podcasts and in the content that people produce. It's always There's always lots of generalizations and simplifications of what's going on and there's always like this is what's happening in recruiting at the moment and we just we just can't say that at the moment but the 1 thing that is certain is uncertainty and change and evolution.
04:44.46
Brad Owens
Um, sure. Yeah.
04:54.20
Brad Owens
Sure. So since you mentioned the Ai the automation the personalization that lends itself really well to this high volume hard to find the right candidate that kind of space. So Let's focus there for a minute So when you mention this personalization and this automation. A lot of firm owners and you know the folks that are working for them now have grown up in this call and email space. That's really all they're focused on so when you think about this personalization this automation where do you see that applying for those owners that might be a little low hanging fruit.
05:30.55
Matt Alder
Um, yeah I think that automation is kind of being embedded in lots of different areas of lots of different areas of recruiting if we're talking about that you know high high volume hiring you know those kind of areas What I'm seeing is. Lots of automation in terms of outreach in terms of in terms of communication in terms of scheduling in terms of initial assessment. Um, you know all those all those kind of things the ability to provide I Think what's going on is it's the ability to provide potential candidates with you know. Excellent automated communication that lets them know exactly where they are and what's and what's and what's going on um in a way that that people like to communicate people like to communicate by text message by Whatsapp by um, the the kind of things that automation is automation is plugging plugging into um you know it's very difficult to. Phone people and email people and get ah you know, get a get a response these days. So I think that um a lot of the automation in that sector is about Obviously it's about improving efficiencies and those kind of things I think that goes without saying but but really, it's been driven by improving that candidate. Improving that candidate experience and I think that if we look at all the other areas of our life. We're We're used to automated messaging and things just working and being able to you know to self-serve and do things even if that's going to a supermarket and you know checking your own you know, putting your own goods through the till or.
07:04.53
Matt Alder
Um, you know, check it into airplanes. Whatever it is. We are used to that degree of automation and that degree of self-service and I think it's um, inevitable that it's going to move into what it is moving into recruiting.
07:16.50
Brad Owens
Yeah I completely agree there I feel like other industries and I'm going to give a 2 part to this so one part other industries since I've grown up in this space like looking across all of these industries industries which is a good thing about niche recruiting. You get to see a whole bunch of different industries. Ah, but ah. Looking across all of those industries a lot of other industries for their consumers have solved all of this probably a long time ago. It's it's been solved for and we know the technology exists one of the pitfalls that I'm seeing out there in the market when it comes to this automation. Is they focus on that first thing you said the efficiency side of things so they may be trying to take the same process that they've been doing for years and just automate that and you follow that up with a good point of to increase the candidate experience. So what are some of those. Things that would you know not necessarily be in a recruiting process but should be automated to increase that candidate experience. Are you seeing anything there.
08:16.95
Matt Alder
Yeah I mean I suppose it's to pick up on your point there about focusing on the process and automating things that people are already doing and not thinking of the the candidate One of the the key things here is is is about quality of Communication. So. You know whether that's automated sourcing or automated interview scheduling or whatever that might be. We still need to think really carefully about how we communicate how we craft the copy how we sort of teach the machines to um, you know to to talk to people because otherwise you just get um. You know, automated spamming or taking really bad processes and making them work faster and more more efficient and causing. Um you know, causing causing more damage. So I think that I'm really thinking through that human effort that that human aspect of you know, empathetic persuasive communication.
08:57.16
Brad Owens
Yep, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah.
09:10.57
Matt Alder
Is is kind of absolutely critical here. So I think that um when people look at Automation. It's really important that you have a strategy that includes that that speaks to that speaks to personalization and communication as well. Otherwise I think it just makes things. Ah, you know it makes things worse for for for candidates and ultimately you can't reach the talent that you um, the talent that you need, Um, you know other other places I'm seeing automation and personalization. So that kind of um, you know sourcing and outreach communications during the ah the start of the process interview scheduling. Um, you know I'm seeing people you know companies providing um, automated feedback from assessments. Um, also automation in things like career pages and career sites to sort of really personalize the experience based On. Um, you know what someone's searching for. So I think that. Um, you know it can really really make recruiting better for everyone make it more efficient. Um, and really deliver um a high quality a high quality experience to everyone.
10:21.49
Brad Owens
Agreed the I so I brought this up to someone the other day who's in the industry talking about this personalization and I mentioned the whole when they're visiting your career page thing and the whole idea of personalizing that just. They were like that's foreign to me. What are you talking about? So the way I explained it to them is the Amazon I said all right pull up your phone go to Amazon.com and I went to amazon.com to to completely different homepages because they're tailored directly to us and I tried to explain the same sort of thing with a website if I came to your website. For the first time and I searched for accounting roles if I show up again I shouldn't see all of your brand new tech roles I should see hey look at this new accounting role. It's perfect based on the last one you did those are the types of personalizations that I'm thinking about when I think in the space. A lot of people when they think personalization is the old email hacks that we all used to have of putting hashtag hashtag name hashtag hashtag so that we personalize their first name and then every once in a while we forget to change that and it goes out and says hi name. Ah, that's what I think people are thinking about and they initially think personalization. But.
11:24.74
Matt Alder
Yeah.
11:31.46
Brad Owens
I Like the examples that she used I Hope that people start using that.
11:33.20
Matt Alder
Yeah, it's it's it's really about that kind of personalization of context. Um, you know, really? um, ah you know, really understanding the context in which someone's doing something. Um I think Netflix is a great example as well because net netflix offers.
11:45.91
Brad Owens
True.
11:50.89
Matt Alder
Personal personalized recommendations. But even the graphics promoting the shows are personalized depending on what someone's watching. So um I you know I saw I saw a kind of an analysis with this when um I think it was not this season of strangers things the season before or they had. Multiple different versions of the graphic promoting it depending on what they categorize the person. Um, you know the the kind of consumption. The person had in terms of what they thought was going to be the hook to make them watch it. So that's the level that we're talking about in the rest of our everyday lives. So recruiting's got a long way to go till it gets there and.
12:29.81
Brad Owens
Yeah, does all right? So I'm the recruiter known listening to this and all of a sudden I'm going Holy Geez I don't have the staff for that I don't have the insights for that. So Are you seeing any beginner friendly ways. That folks are starting to go down this personalization route.
12:50.92
Matt Alder
Um, excuse me voices voices leaving me. Um, yeah I think it the the key thing is to really understand your I mean there's lots of things that you can do So Even um, you know I Run a one man business as ah as a podcast host. I have to obviously deal with ah you know a lot of people schedule a lot of interviews I do 2 you know I do two shows a week. You know I automated my process I've you know used callandly um I've I've I've I've kind of used some um some ways to kind of automate that into my into my crm. Um, you know I'm using text expander to send instructions to my guests and pulling pulling that all together into a process and what it means is actually that people who want to come on the show are now getting much better experience because they're not relying on me having to send. Um, you know individual emails each time a lot of it is kind of automated in terms of um in terms of what they get and you know that was the experience I had coming on your show. You've kind of you know automated a lot of that sort of guest experience and that's not um, you know that's that things that that we've done by ourselves without huge budgets and without lots of people. So um. You know there are lots of opportunities to to use. Um, you know tech technology out there and I think what's interesting is you know there are kind of price points to to suit everyone now in terms of um how you can you know give ah give a better experience through.
14:19.68
Matt Alder
You know automating you know, automating things and.
14:22.87
Brad Owens
I agree one of the biggest impact things I've ever seen. Um bear a lot of fruit was we had a a reliable client that was kind of our evergreen client like we had this one type of position at this 1 client. And they had a very specific interview type process so they were hiring loads of people from us and what I ended up implementing is a before you go in text so it was an hour before the interview when most people who lived in a local area were probably getting ready to leave. Um. I I sent out this automated text message that said hey hope you're ready for your interview have a fantastic and safe trip wishing you the best luck as you walk in something to think about on your drive that may help you during this interview is and I gave them kind of a question to just tickle their brain. And the amount of personalization that people thought was going into that so that they felt like wow this person really cares about me getting that job. It was unbelievable because everyone talked about it after they called me for interview feedback. So it's little things like that that I think would just make a complete difference.
15:21.61
Matt Alder
Ah.
15:26.15
Matt Alder
And also I think that that now we're so used to that kind of automation. It doesn't even matter if it's not from a human if I look at it and go do you know? what? that's an automated process providing the information is timely and useful and valuable and makes my life easier. I Don't care whether it's come from a human or ah or a machine you know now I want there to be a human in the background that I can I can talk to and in recruiting there kind of always will be um, you know the the human human intervention at ah at some point or other but you know I don't think people necessarily care that they're talking.
15:47.15
Brad Owens
Um, yep.
16:03.71
Matt Alder
To a machine if they're getting that timely you know valuable information and and that's been really thought through in terms of you know what they need at that you know at that at that point in time. So.
16:13.70
Brad Owens
So you mentioned something there there always be a human element when the conversation inevitably every single time you get into the future of recruiting is like oh the recruital is future I agree with you that there's always gonna be a more human touch thinking about the potential. Of recruiterless hiring something like the Amazon hiring process for their warehouses or whatever where do you think there still needs to be the human element and where do you think that's going to be important going forward.
16:44.87
Matt Alder
So to me, it's all about to me I mean you raise a good point about that the the Amazon model there. So I think the the the amount of human intervention if you like I think is going to vary from sectors. Sector and and job and job to job. It's probably hard to generalize what that would look like but but also but ultimately the the human intervention in recruiting is all about persuasion. You know how do you understand? you know someone's needs their needs from their career. Their needs from their life. To to persuade them that this this is the right role for them. Um, and I don't think you you know you can you can automate that persuasion to it in some extent in terms of the type of content that you give to people. But but ultimately these are very human decisions. You know where I'm where I'm going to work that affects my that affects my whole life where I live my family all those kind of things and I think that that sophistication in empathy and persuasion is what you can't automate what you need to think about. Is where does that fit most effectively in the process and are I humans working on that and working on building the relationships that they need to or are they working on things that not only could be automated but would be better if they were automated.
18:11.97
Brad Owens
I'm glad that there's no one that's looking for a new job with a recruiting firm listening to this show that I know of because I do feel like the persuasion aspect is something that a I can't get. I tried I put on chat Gp and I was trying I gave it here are the key factors that I look for persuade me that I want a job that features those things and it wasn't fantastic at it So that is a way that I agree and the things that I've seen some people in the Industry. Don't know who they are because they listen to this.
18:32.81
Matt Alder
Yeah, absolutely yeah.
18:45.58
Brad Owens
Ah, start to use that as their key their differentiator is when they're going through the process of talking to this candidate of intake of whatever that is they start starring the things that would be those kind of ability to apply a bit of persuasion.
19:03.30
Matt Alder
Yeah, yeah.
19:04.58
Brad Owens
To this individual so that when it comes time to close the things that pop up on their screen in front of them when you're delivering an offer are here are all the things this person cares about so you can craft your message.
19:14.26
Matt Alder
Absolutely absolutely and that is that that to me is the that is the skill of recruiting and I think if we go back to a world before the internet and mobiles and computers and all those kind of things that was the fundamental that was the fundamental skill that that people had.
19:19.92
Brad Owens
Yes.
19:31.60
Brad Owens
Um, yes.
19:33.14
Matt Alder
And what I'd hope was I think that you know what we've seen in the last twenty years as technology um has become ubiquitous is you know, a lot of that has been lost in terms of mass email spamming and you know some of the things that go on and what I would hope is that you know through clever use of automation and Ai. We can um you know, get back to that and actually the differentiator will be. You know those skills that people have not their their scheduling skills or their um you know their ability to to do a hundred cold calls in a day or whatever it is. It's kind of like you know that that real core of recruiting. Um, and.
20:05.62
Brad Owens
Right.
20:11.83
Matt Alder
You know I would hope that you know maybe I'm being overoptimistic but but my optimistic view which the that is what will come out of the current. You know, technology Ai revolution that we're seeing and I think interesting you mentioned chat gp there because I think what that's done. Is that's kind of really sort of brought this into people's consciousness that actually this is what you know actually can you know this is what Ai can actually do now you know that's kind of been happening in the background in lots of different you know software iterations for for a couple of years now but um certainly in terms of. Bringing it into bringing it front of mind for everyone I think that's ah, that's perhaps the most revolutionary thing about it that people are now looking at going oh hang on it and if it was my job to just write. You know, very simple. You know, copy like that then I'm going to have to up my game and or actually you know we can. Um, or to make things that we didn't think were you know were possible but also of course it has its ah of course it has its limitations.
21:15.54
Brad Owens
It does it does and hopefully that's what recruiters will pick up on because smile and dialing. It's not going to work so much. So thank you Matt I want to be respectful of your time and thank you so much for coming out and and expending just a little bit of knowledge with everyone. I will tell everyone listening that this is just a tiny little taste of what you can get from Matt if you go to recruiting future.com. You'll find this and much much more Thank you so much for taking time out today. Any last little words of wisdom you want to leave everyone with.
21:45.77
Matt Alder
Um, not that I can think of other than check out the you know, check out the check out the podcast and just think very carefully and strategically about Ai and automation. This is not about you know, rushing out to you know to to learn. You know to learn the the in and outs of how to get the best out of you know, chat Gpt this week or next week it's about taking a step back taking a step back looking at your business and thinking very strategically about how these tools are going to really help you move forward.
22:17.42
Brad Owens
Love it. Thank you get Matt really appreciate it recruiting future dot coms where you can go to find more from Matt if you want to find more episodes of this podcast. Its at transform recruiting dot com feel free to send me in an email hello at bradowins.com thank you so much again. Matt and we'll catch you all in the next episode.