Talent Experience Matters with Colin Mooney
When's the last time you've been through the talent experience at your own company? Now compare that to the last time you ordered Starbucks from your phone. See any differences? Today I talk with industry leader, Colin Mooney, about what the recruiting world could be doing to close the digital experience gap.
Find Colin here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinmooney/
[Transcribed from episode above]
00:05.59
Brad Owens
Hey everyone welcome back to another episode of the transform recruiting podcast I'm your host Brad Owens very very excited to be able to introduce you to the guests today. Mr. Colin Mooney Colin thanks so much for taking time out man I appreciate you being part of it.
00:22.13
Colin Mooney
A brad delighted to join and I'm interested to to chat and connect again. It's been a little while I think a couple of months since we met at a conference most recently. But ah yeah, great and excited for your podcast congratulations.
00:34.53
Brad Owens
Yeah, appreciate it. Thank you so I want everyone to understand kind of where your opinion's coming from and where your insights coming from. So could you give everyone kind of the reader's digest background on Colin.
00:46.94
Colin Mooney
Yeah, I'm currently really excited about my new role in ah staffing woodham employee bridge and the largest us ah commercial industrial staffing firm. Um. I like anyone probably have that how did you end up in staffing ah journey story. Most recently I I learned everything I know about staffing working with Robert Haff as chief digital officer and and I was under professional staffing. And the spectrum there and ah previous to that I worked with salesforce in 1 of their technology consulting teams I think which is where I got exposed to talent acquisition and staffing in general and the passion for improving experiences and building technology and understanding that. You know the opportunities and the problems to be solved that come with hiring and being hard and and try my whole career I've always worked in either technology building or product designing or problem solving. Um you know I've I've done. All sorts of things like working for a carpooling startup and ah you know, figuring out how to get people from and to work and and you know, ah connect people together I think like there was a lot of similar genes and similarities to staffing and recruiting there I started my career.
02:16.76
Colin Mooney
Building technology for tellers and banks and again I refer back to that now twenty years later a lot and the similarity between the high volume activity of a bank Teller and a branch and a recruiter at least a professional recruiter is ah. You know strangely similar as well. So long story short I love staffing I love the problems and and scale and volume to come with it I'm passionate about the candidates associates in particular I love learning what others are doing. There's no doubt that there's lots of opportunity are. Our industry particularly in staffing is not well known for digital and and and for amazing experiences and I want to be part of the group that challenges myself and and the companies I work for but everyone really to raise the game I think getting hired and the experience of onboarding. Whether it be directly with a company or with staffing firms has just typically been known as hard and and not ideal. So that's that's where my passion comes from really enjoying working with others and yeah I I never knew what staffing was and they never really understood it as an industry until. Started working in it. But I love working in it now and I don't know if there'll ever be a time where we won't be busy trying to make it better.
03:32.90
Brad Owens
Yeah, because there's a lot of opportunity to do that and to your point when you mentioned the experiences whether it's our talent whether it's our recruiters. Whoever's actually doing the job I feel like and I know you feel the same way. So I'm curious to get some. Opinions for me here. This is such a lagging industry with experiences we have candidates that have to do so much manual work that have to come find the things that they want and then they apply and then they may not even get any sort of feedback on that and. When they're in the process. It's just a whole bunch of being in the dark when I think about like just signing up for Spotify or anything else. It's so seamless. It's so easy you get relevant stuff coming to you. Why isn't it that way in staffing. So I'm curious what you've seen over the past couple years that's you know shocked you.
04:26.45
Colin Mooney
I think my best first hand exposure to what could it be that causes it to be less than ideal from an experience. Perspective is a most recent. Acquisition that employee bridge entered into with a company called blue crew and and and we've just closed on that partnership and we're starting out on a journey together. Um, the blue crew team in its Dna has a. Start at the customer and work backwards approach so they build and deliver a fully digital experience and they work backwards to what they describe to the manual systems. I think the look why is that different I think most of staffing starts at what are the laws and regulations in every state they design a process for the staffing firm to operate that and distribute it ah to typically it's branches or or local and locations in all the states. And then it's just applied to or engaged to the yeah clients and candidates interact with it so long story short I think the experience was never designed for the customer and I think that's the same with internal age or like I think you can.
05:47.33
Colin Mooney
You can possibly say that at any employer you've worked at the internal hr technology looks like it was h or technology designed for hr not really designed for the employees who have to sign up for annual enrollment or check for a pay slip or update you know information under. Ah, personal record. So ah, it's all about you know designing for those people who you're going to be engaging with the candidates and the clients and I think the companies that are starting to do that well are reaping the benefits of it and it's really interesting that you mentioned the likes of Spotify like I definitely get inspired by. Really simple things like logging into an app on my Tv now the the fact that they're smart enough to physically reference a qr code that I can scan on my phone. You know I I take inspiration for that and say like wow we've got thousands of candidates who go ahead on assignment for our staffing firms. Could we be using physical location. Or the Gps and their phone to make some of the experience more relevant. Um, you know so I know Colin has showed up at that location this morning I don't need him to put in a pin I don't need him to sign in or sign up I don't need him to fill out and think I know it's Colin on his day right now because I've used the phone in his pocket or. The qr code that he just scanned at that location and I know it to be secure. So um, yeah, it's about taking the best of the experiences out there and trying to package them back into the services we offer. But ah yeah, design it for the customer I guess like you could have any number of companies telling us that that's a good idea if you look at the amazons and.
07:22.93
Brad Owens
Yeah, well you mentioned something there that reminded me of a story early on in my career that started me down the path of oh geez we're not doing just the very basic things for our for our customers which are our candidates or our talent.
07:22.94
Colin Mooney
Spotify is another of the world.
07:29.30
Colin Mooney
Okay, starting.
07:40.21
Brad Owens
I had someone who was starting on their assignment. There. The very first day and I sent them a text message like 1 minute before I knew that they were set to start and he told me later he said you know I got that when I was walking through the doors about to tell someone that I was there to start on my first day and that made me feel so. So thought of it made me feel so secure and he was a candidate of mine for my entire career doing this It's those little experiences that we're not thinking about because we're not designing for them and you just mentioned the qr codes if I'm thinking about how we used to.
08:06.43
Colin Mooney
Are.
08:16.48
Brad Owens
I Don't know a clock into a job where you had this little card thing right? beside where you needed to stamp your actual time card that day has anyone done qr codes for hey I got here to my job. Now I need to sign out on my job and we don't need to do time and expense anymore.
08:36.55
Colin Mooney
It's starting to evolve a number of different solutions whether it are first party by staffing firms working with clients or product and tech companies who are solving for time pay Bill compliance, etc. Um. But it's a very interesting area like I definitely think that's a huge area of opportunity like what is the physical and environmental experience you get after the first moment of showing up on the first day for the first shift. Um. Like a personal story for me I worked at Mcdonald's in the late 90 s I would clock in and clock out with a physical plastic card. Um, you know shifts were whatever length to shift they were so if I was working 9 to 5 I could physically clock in at the back of the kitchen at eight fifty seven I might clock out. Ah. You know four 57 as well. It's 8 hour shift but it was on a you know 3 minutes off the the random hour but I always wondered when we got our pay slips as like someone's going in and editing and random these out because they know I didn't work 3 hours extra early I was just at the back of the kitchen and on time. And I didn't go home 3 minutes early I was actually finished my shift and someone took over for me and I worked the 8 hours and I always wonder and happened to do that on every single day like what's the point of this I definitely think that's an area of opportunity brad in hourly shift work and in industrial and commercial.
10:06.56
Colin Mooney
If the providers of either our own technology and staffing firms or the providers of technology. Third party are allowed to manage time for the contingent workers on behalf of the clients I think it would solve a lot so we we do encounter that the whole industry does like. Hundreds of different variations of um time clock and and time entry and methods out there and the thought of integrating them all is it's not that it's daunting like it's a problem you could solve but it's just not interesting I think there's definitely something in there. And companies like blue crew and other third party vendors are talking to clients and say like there's a better way to do this like if we don't prescribe a specific way of operating um per client we can open up to easier more standardized background checks. A simpler time recording or time entry of course never ignoring the need to be compliant and acknowledging and looking after the the safety and well-being of the workers themselves and and the workplaces that they're in. But yeah time. Physical experiences qr codes does a lot that can be done to make everything better for clients or candidates.
11:22.42
Brad Owens
Yeah, they really can be and I know you are a frequent frequenter of the events in the industry and you're you're definitely a person that studies up on what everyone's doing so instead of trying trying to boil the ocean. Know there's a whole lot of companies that I'm talking to even people on this podcast when we start into this conversation. There's just so much that we could do where do you feel like the true easy roi exists in this industry. What are the things that we need to focus on first.
11:56.20
Colin Mooney
Ah, if you abstract it back and I'm glad you simply fight the question because you could go into a hundred different topics if you abstract it back I particularly am obsessed with the thought of making things easier and faster and.
12:12.60
Brad Owens
Ah.
12:12.47
Colin Mooney
in in the first few years of studying the experiences around talent acquisition and hiring and being hired things were difficult and complicated often confusing and took a long time like you you hear these stories like it takes like hours to onboard someone. Like there's not many experiences in your life now that takes hours and and I think it's it's that easy and fast mentality that just takes a look at you know what are we asking our customers to do whether they are our clients or the candidates that engage in. I think like in easy and fast and you say okay so what do I take away from that. It's simplify. It's you know have have the approach of building technology that allows you to create those experiences so you know. Have databases and systems of record where someone can log into an account and not have to repeat information that they supply to you keep keeping customer records safe but evergreen so that you can you know repeat repeatedly engage with someone and and have them access to information. And I think it is being careful to have that right balance between like compliantly doing good business but also creating good experiences for your customers. So again paper forms long packages of things to acknowledge and sign.
13:43.75
Colin Mooney
Trying to reduce that as much as possible and people are getting there like even in in in the times that I hope you need our building stuff myself or looking at like people are getting to you know, sign up to t's and C's digitally as you as you're creating an account instead of looking at pages and pages of pdfs later in the. Experience or only collecting data when it's needed so you know splitting out this idea of registering a candidate before onboarding an employee I think that's an important concept as well. That people have often bundled together and make it too much of a task again long and hard not easy and fast. Um, and. I think there's also an acknowledgement that this is investment like it's not transformation. Um, you know it's not transformation for just the sake of it like it definitely requires people to focus on the experience. I I think. You can get away with it if you're very small specialist or or local only. But if you're scaling a business I think you definitely need to focus on the experience but easy and fast is the is the thing that I would work on mostly in my mind as I'm thinking about anything um for recruiters.
15:02.45
Colin Mooney
Internally like it's a little bit different I think you've got to think about you know, simplifying their roles and activities and and in order to make people successful I think it's about efficiency and and efficiency specifically indifference to the word productivity because people think like. Ah, you building software so they can make more calls or connect with more candidates I don't think that's specifically the goal I think it's making staff and professionals more successful by allowing processes and experiences to let them choose. What's the most valuable way to help. Ah. Ah customers I all also think like and for recruiters I've used this analogy a lot of like then they they would be more successful if we create an environment where they become air traffic controllers instead of being pilots of every single plane. Um, and I don't know where or how to codify or write that down better someday I'm going to have to like explain that in a nicer way than they do. For example today. But um I do think it's possible for a single recruiter to assist many hundreds of candidates and clients if the technology allows them. To connect and I think that is similar to what has happened in banking the the ratio of bank employees to the number of customers that they help or enable has ah been in a like it. It has been made more um, read it's it's more reasonable for people to be able to.
16:31.79
Colin Mooney
Participate in you know customer success as opposed to like transactional engagements. So yeah, those things are all topics I think about making things simpler easier and faster creating an environment for staff and Professionals can be more successful instead of ah. Maybe focusing too much on the productivity of the tools because that those tools exist.
16:50.94
Brad Owens
So you struck a nerve when you said focus more like it's a customer support type role when I started really digging into this stuff that model spoke to me as well. It's more of a like think about. And amazing experience that you've had whether you'd say a purchase that you've had or a nice support experience or whatever it is and then try and think about the person's name that helped you. It's probably going to be difficult to do that. But that relationship that you built with that organization. That's the important thing that you're going to go back and you know really pay attention to and in our world when you've got this crazy amount of turnover with recruiters having that relationship with our organization is going to be way more important and I feel like if we approach this from a more customer service type mentality. We open ourselves up to be able to create that company relationship better than you know the 1 on 1 transactional type things.
17:52.76
Colin Mooney
I I totally agree I think I've seen it 1 or 2 things that I've been involved in where when the metrics and the objectives and the incentives for the recruiter persona. Is driven towards customer success and facilitation that turnover is totally different. You're you're talking average tenure in multiple years instead of in some. Scenarios it being like an average of less than 18 months and many scenarios because it's a difficult job to a start into at all and be be successful at to the extent where you're meeting your goals or or becoming rewarded in the level that you would want so. Um, yeah, and that doesn't like it as you were talking I was like I wonder like does that rule work for everything I think that there there are certain elements where you know you have to be much more involved in the relationship like permanent recruiting and permanent placement. Um, you would you? you would hope.
18:59.66
Brad Owens
Very true.
19:03.51
Colin Mooney
Person remembers the name of the recruiter who assisted them either on the hiring side or getting placed. Um I think in temporary recurring. it's it's it's so high frequency and then the the recurring aspect of candidates potentially staying with. Ah, staffing firm or a marketplace or some of these apps that are more gig and and flex oriented I think that ah you don't need to know who the name of a person is you? you could say like I was well served by the name of the staff firm or to marketplace or product that you're using so in in general I think it's it's it's just natural. Allowing the role of the recruiter or staff and professional to evolve as the technology and experiences catch up and and assist with it. Um, and and I think the same with like I I traveled a bit over the years so you know working with airlines in 2022 I don't feel bad that I don't call the airline directly and I don't have that great conversation because I don't need to do it every time but when I need to they're there and I get great expert help for the the few times that I need it and I think that will be the. Response or the perception of our clients and candidates when they need us and they call us. We'll be there with expert help. But for most of the time we want to enable them to be successful on their own and be connected to the brand more so than connected to a single employee. Um.
20:28.41
Colin Mooney
But I I agree with you. It is. It's definitely something that needs a lot more proofing out and more companies to be able to you know, be be the the ones at the front of the line that can show others that the the role can change and it will impact or or limit the. You know the ah effect or impact that we have on our customers.
20:50.33
Brad Owens
Yeah, yeah, completely agree. So right now in your world and what you're working on now and I realize this is still early days in what you've been doing What do you feel like is.
20:59.48
Colin Mooney
Um, yeah.
21:05.80
Brad Owens
Making your job easier because I'll tell you why I'm asking Why why you think about it. Um I'm asking because there are a lot of people I think that although they are even going to stay at their current role. They are going to be faced with if they want to look at hey how we're going to make this thing easier. There's a whole lot that they're going to have to come up to speed on and come up to speed on quickly. They're going to have to look at Processes. They may not have looked at in a long time. They're going to have to sit aside people that they haven't sat with for a long time.. What do you feel like is maybe a system or a process or something you're using right now that helps you to come up to speed quickly.
21:42.46
Colin Mooney
I have started reading a lot in the last five to ten years where when I was actually in school or in university I didn't actually read a lot and I I read a lot of business or academic books that are helping me as a practitioner understand like what's happening out there. So. I read a lot of like framework strategy pattern type books um, and and when you put them into practical use I think the answer to your question is what's making things easy out. There is the. The the growth of platforms now is helping a lot to be honest, like the the it architecture for building digital experiences is less fractured I think a lot of Cto's chief technology officers or engineering leaders now can leverage cloud computing. Leverage mobile leverage the you know the the crm african tracking marketing and personalization technologies without having to spend their I p or core competency in building those things. And really focusing on the potential to create a differentiated experience by leveraging those platforms and delivering on brand to whatever the you know the specialty or I p you want to deliver. So.
23:12.98
Colin Mooney
I definitely think what's making it easier is I hardly ever encounter an issue now where I'm saying I wonder what technology will we use or I wonder what platform we leverage to you know, seize an opportunity or solve a problem. A lot of the time now and i'm. Designing or trying to figure out like what can I do to make something unique. Um, and it's funny. A lot of people say like so. What do you do? and it's a recurring pattern. It's like online things to offline manual things to get automated and analog things that get digitized. And when you go from an offline analog world ah to an online automated and digital world. Ah you you get great. You know shift changes then from it so the easy bit is. Existence of all these platforms out there. Salesforce Microsoft Google Amazon and Oracle and many others and then most of the time there's either a product or service provider that helps with things that are not even core to our industry. Ah, think a lot about payments and things nowadays. There's lot of exciting things that will happen in the next few years where we we won't be worried about sending people pay checks on paper or be limited to paying people on pay cards or you know it is.
24:40.00
Colin Mooney
You know, pretty easy nowadays to connect a customer to their bank accounts and and have direct deposits set up quickly. But I do think there's going to be interesting ah innovation in that specific area around venmo and other you know digital wallets and things. So. That's just 1 example, but we encounter that over and over a lot of companies are solving problems on the edge of our service that help us cloak and play add those in. But yeah, but that's what happens but the reading helps too. You can't just you know I think that's important like keeping up to date with what the best in class are doing. Um, is another thing I keep a running list of kind of my my yeah, my favorite tech companies and my my four at the moment are Starbucks Delta Airlines Amazon and Home Depot if you study those 4 companies you'll understand or maybe you won't that's probably another podcast. We can do.
25:32.99
Brad Owens
The.
25:34.68
Colin Mooney
Ah, what? what they do which is so similar to staffing and home depot and Starbucks and just give those 2 quickly. Those 2 companies have done so well. Ah ordering online or mobile or digital and fulfilling in the store so ordering a cup of coffee and go to physically collect it or ordering a product and picking it up and in the store in home depot. Where you can get it same day real time and I think that mix of like providing an excellent onboarding and ongoing digital experience with the mixture of and for staffing that's showing up to a worksite and performing a task or doing a long term professional project and and having regular frequency like submitting time sheets are getting paid. I used still do those companies all the time I used their technology a lot I physically walk into stores and look for things like the qr codes and I need the physical experience features that might inspire us so am yeah reading looking for inspiration inspiration in other non industry. Um. You know companies and ah yeah, keep an up to date for sure.
26:32.60
Brad Owens
And see this is why I always enjoy conversations with you because that's why I had to start this podcast in the first place because no one's talking about it like what? no one's talking about what's the next stuff they're trying to solve what's on their plate like there's not a lot of people out there that are thinking about what's the next thing so I wanted to seek them out and talk to them and.
26:39.69
Colin Mooney
Ah, right.
26:51.50
Colin Mooney
Um, yeah, um, sort of 4 that I like literally have on my desk all day every day is a connected strategy. Ah that.
26:51.64
Brad Owens
You were top on the list I Appreciate you saying? Yes, Ah, what's what do I need to add to my reading list Then what are the books to get.
27:04.72
Brad Owens
That.
27:08.60
Colin Mooney
Has the sub topic of building continuous customer relationships for competitive advantage that is a very great read that does talk about what does it mean like a Starbucks to stay connected with you in perpetuity all day every day. Um. So love that book that has some great frameworks and patterns in there frany when designing experiences. There's a psychology product design book called hooked how to build habit forming products by near eo um. It's an amazing book that talked about triggers. So how would you keep engaged with someone and how would they react to you know, personalized push notifications and the ability to customize an experience so that's a great book and. Fascinating about some of the examples and it will remind you why you check your social media so many times per day. It'll explain to what what they? what what? the reason for that is um, big picture strategy type transformation book zone to win. Organizing to compete in an age of disruption that's from Jeffrey Moore famous for crossing the chasm and other books like that. Um, it's just fantastic for someone like me to be able to share with my peers the difference between you know transformation like transforming a company rather than you know.
28:14.37
Brad Owens
In here.
28:29.46
Colin Mooney
Just renovation or or innovation I think one of the important things they talk about is is something really transformational if it's not of an opportunity size of like 10% of the revenue of the company or something. So. Typically that's a way that I use internally to decide is this a transformational project that I should be working on. Is it strategic or is it just part of building technology or keeping the company running so a little bit like the run versus grove and in the Ford book which is. A book I've loved as I've worked in technology products and learning about product management which is um, inspired by Marty Kagan who's ah is a famous product leaguer. He runs the Silicon Valley product group had to create tech products customers. Love. And again, this is just like fundamentals for anyone involved in building technology and product about ah how to understand what people need or desire in solving a problem or taken an action and how to carefully craft. Ah, product design and solutions such that it really does solve the problem but more than that does it in a way where someone would say I love using that product compared to its competitors or compared to what didn't exist before so those 4 books I'll admit I flip through them a lot and I pull quotes from them and i.
29:54.43
Colin Mooney
Highlight My Yeah favorite tafts in them. But every single role like in my latest role.. There's a new requirement to be more conscious of change management as we're rolling out transformation I'm reading all sorts of change management books and articles at the moment from scratch I'm connecting with. Former colleagues who actually run change management functions are teams so staying connected with people reading and is important and they're the they're the books I currently have on the desk.
30:19.63
Brad Owens
There you go? Well if anyone needed more of a reason to continue listening to the podcast I think you just gave them 1 yes, stay up with what everyone's doing That's exactly why I wanted to do this one all right. Ah, so what else do we need to know but I want to be conscious of your time here and I've already taken up a half hour so what else do we need to know what else is on your mind. What else is what's the industry changing what does it need to change. We talked about experience is there anything else top of mind.
30:47.98
Colin Mooney
I mean I mean me personally like New Year's resolution I would like to whiteboard on a blank whiteboard without just executing on a strategy or delivering on a plan that ah, they've already been working on I'd love to look at what's next. To the point where I don't think there's enough physical experience considered in the technology and services and solutions that we as an industry offer I do think we're all under utilizing the potential of some of the newer technologies. So you know Ai famously in recruiting. Has been used for. Um you know, matching engines and ah recommending and jobs to people but I'd love to see what other possibilities are out there and in particular I think a lot of companies in the staffing industry focus.
31:43.45
Colin Mooney
A lot on the first placement of a candidate for the filling of each job but I don't think we any of us do a good job of reutilizing and replacing candidates the idea that you can sign up to and persist on. Ah, relationship whether it be a platform America place or with a staffing firm I don't think we're doing well as a entire industry there and that might be an orthodoxy where we're trying to fill jobs only or we're trying to get a candidate for a job but we're less. Focused on or less tenured or mature I guess in our practices as an industry on kind of keep that candidate on assignment. There are good individuals who do that naturally but I think that's it like maybe spending more time focusing on like the real innovative bleeding edge stuff put. It. It goes back to the very and beginning our conversation There's so much catchup that the industry is doing. We're solving or recreating solutions to all problems like capturing time and getting people compliant and paying people and onboarding etc connecting with them. Um, but I'm hopeful that we're we're in a time now where we can get into those really interesting things and ultimately make people's jobs and lives better like there are actual like roles out there where people are physically needing to be in a physical location or we've got people.
33:08.80
Colin Mooney
Performing tasks that are actually like I'm trying to think of like you know in in the world of commercial staff and like we've got physically got people on site managing the workforce I think like those jobs could be um. Those jobs could be. You know, evolved to where you don't need to be physically there to manage other people's work or clock people in or out or supervise or monitor people I think there are ways to create better experiences with with what we have available. But yeah, maybe it's just some time to go wild with no prescription or. You know any particular path to take and just pick some problems that we know are important out there and you know go wild with them I think that is interesting to just you know, not not knowing much about staffing I Always love getting new colleagues to work with who have come from outside staffing I Love the different perspectives that they bring so. Ah, yeah, that's it Ah, more time to do cool things.
34:02.82
Brad Owens
Yeah, you said 2 things that resonate um the thinking about how far behind we are from other industries that have solved for these things long long ago. Everyone to me went went to my personal pet peeves. 1 everyone's like oh the Ats will solve everything and then no one tracks any information in it and then no one uses it and they're not making it easy for their recruiters salespeople have solved this years ago. What are you doing like this is not that difficult and then you also mentioned.
34:28.40
Colin Mooney
Are.
34:38.21
Brad Owens
Keeping a relationship with someone so that you can have repeats placements why then is all of our matching engines the top ones in the world right now just focused on keywords like that does nothing if they added 1 thing just a rating from the hiring manager they sent them out to. 1 thing. It would totally change the game. So yeah I'm with you I think there's a lot that we can do with just a little bit of investment. So maybe we'll have a second podcast on us riffing on that stuff. But that sounds fun. What thank you so much con I really really appreciate it's where would you like people to find you if they have any kind of questions.
35:13.79
Colin Mooney
Connect with me on Linkedin Colin Mooney in working at employee bridge and yeah, good luck with the podcast I'll be listening to the episodes eager to learn from the peers and.
35:17.28
Brad Owens
Perfect.
35:27.49
Colin Mooney
If we come up on anything interesting and we'll we'll give you a shout and and come back and connect. But yeah, love to the time. Thank you.
35:31.82
Brad Owens
Perfect. Yeah I appreciate it and if anyone wants to hear any of the rest of the episodes. It's at transform recruiting dot com feel free to email me directly hello at braddowins.com and thank you all so much for listening. We'll see on the next one.