Optimizing the Intersection Between Your Recruiters and Technology with Rob Mann
As a recruiting leader, you have three customers to serve; your clients, your candidates and your recruiters. In this episode, Rob Mann shares why he believes you should focus on getting the technology, experience and workflow optimized for your recruiters.
Find Rob Here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rdmann/
[Transcribed from video above]
00:07.27
Brad Owens
What's up everybody welcome to this episode of transform recruiting I'm your host Brad Owens and I'm excited to be joined by another podcast host a Mr Rob man Rob thanks for coming on man.
00:17.20
Rob Mann
Hey right? Thanks for having me I Love the intro music and appreciate you. You having me on as someone who had to go through and create his own intro music by the way I had that had a producer do all that for ours. Super fun. So.
00:21.92
Brad Owens
Ah, Jaunty right.
00:32.23
Brad Owens
Yeah, you never knew how important jingles were and so you had to pick one that you know feel like it really defines you.
00:39.40
Rob Mann
I Went with like orchestrated hip hop. So I was that's let me know if you get that when you listen to it next time. No.
00:43.42
Brad Owens
Sure sure it. So I'd love for you to give everyone just a little bit about yourself where you're coming from so that they can understand kind of where your point of view is is rooted.
00:58.66
Rob Mann
Okay, so I think first and foremost you need to know that I taught high school for 7 years ah and then I went into Locums recruiting so worked for a really large locums company went to a smaller one helped grow a team to about 30 in Miami using.
00:59.89
Brad Owens
Ah, perfect.
01:14.97
Rob Mann
Um, a specific ats then I went to work at that Ats and I've been working in the marketplace for bullhorn ever since so they have a salesforce platform you know two actually I have 3 1 in Europe and then they bought Abel which is now a talent platform which has a salesforce app. So lots of lots of relevant stuff for you guys, but my background is I also started a podcast in 2020 when I was at able again which is not town platform and all I've been doing is talking to either technology leaders or staffing and recruiting leaders and. Kind of getting you know, selfishly by the way starting a podcast is a great way to network and a great education brad because it's like you know the most non-aressive way to get to a sales call with somebody so and it's it's nice though because you know I may not sell i.
02:04.28
Brad Owens
Yeah now I'm with you.
02:12.17
Rob Mann
Don't sell to the majority people we interview but I have great relationships with them and continue to you know, talk with them. We get on. You know we see each other in person finally at shows and it's more of a you know, really relaxed conversation and you know you basically learned from their journey and what they've been doing so.
02:27.60
Brad Owens
Completely that's awesome. All right? So you have heard a lot. You have had a lot of conversations so summarize past. Ah, what almost three years of podcast that you've had then summarize them for me and tell me.
02:30.70
Rob Mann
Big fan of podcasting.
02:45.20
Brad Owens
What's going on on the market man. No no easy man.
02:46.51
Rob Mann
Is' this gonna be a video because my face was just hilarious I was like yeah let me just summarize 3 years of of creating content for yeah, no noiserries I got this number one I think and this is 1 thing you mentioned to me is like every time you interview somebody so far they're like tell me what everybody else is going through and. And think the most important thing is I say this a lot and you can I work with another sales rep in the us who basically is still shadowing me um, basically probably for the better part of a year she'll shadow me so I tell people they're not alone or they're not weird for having this issue at least on every call. So. Listening to this if you think your company is unique in their problems. You are unique I always say this to people's individuals too. But you're not special like the problems are still the same I don't want to make you feel like you're not unique and cool. But the problems are usually the same um you know adoption. What to use you know like why this isn't working specifically really well or or what like any any number of things but usually adoption and what to use are the things that come up all the time and our show so our our podcast and I think this is something that you would resonate with is we. 1 what people ask is like the mission vision values of our podcast. We really, we really say like our mission statement is we think that when technology and people work together. Well that better outcomes will come for everyone involved and in staffing you have 3 customers if you're a leader you have your recruiters.
04:19.26
Rob Mann
You have your candidates or your talent and then you have your clients personally I think the most important person to serve is your internal recruiters first those are your first customer and they impact all of your other customers. Um I know salesforce probably believes that in the way that they talk about their 3 60 and understanding your customers. Um.
04:36.45
Brad Owens
Nip same way.
04:38.95
Rob Mann
So Whatever you do for your clients and candidates you should probably do for your internal recruiters too because if you can get that if you can get the technology and the experience in the workflow correct for them. Everybody else is it's It's not easy per se but it is way Easier. So. That's what we like to talk about is the intersection of people and technology and how you can get better outcomes with those. So.
05:01.32
Brad Owens
So you're having conversations with folks that are ready to drop a lot of money on software that they've tied a lot of hopes and dreams to of oh this thing's going to fix x.
05:04.49
Rob Mann
Together.
05:14.66
Brad Owens
Where do you feel like people are entering the marketplace like they come into this marketplace looking for some technology that's going to solve their biggest pain point of what like what are you typically seeing.
05:15.17
Rob Mann
Ah.
05:27.71
Rob Mann
Um, it's a good question. So what are the what are they most often trying to solve is what you're asking me, you know? Ah, unfortunately it's well what? ah I think maybe do we go back to this Iss whatever.
05:33.34
Brad Owens
Correct him.
05:42.39
Rob Mann
Bit of technology they're buying and speak and they always say that like their recruiters aren't going to use it so whatever someone can solve that I think that's a great. Ah yeah, as a billion dollar idea you know solving why people don't want to use technology. Well um, but for me I think.
05:47.80
Brad Owens
Ah.
06:01.15
Rob Mann
Right now this year reporting and so reporting and automation rely on 1 thing which is good data and if people are getting you know people in the sales world right? Ah Sas sales whatever sales preve been relying on good on. Good data and good automation because inherently people who use salesforce have had marketo part dot which is not Mark cloud a long time ago, you know 5 107 years ah sense and bull automation have come around more recently in the last five years so a little bit behind. And as they're trying to catch up on this automation piece and they're trying to learn how to grow their business. They're realizing that their data quality is is really important and so they're coming in and they're trying to talk about how do I get my data right? And that's really about. The same thing as so reporting and automation rely on good data. So as long as you can get them using the system. You'll get those 2 things kind of solved together. They kind of work. You know they're not like independent things if you have people using the system your reporting is better and your automations will be better. So I think data quality.
07:13.60
Brad Owens
Yeah, and I'm seeing to add 1 additional thing in there is understanding where their data is period and what data is important to actually track.
07:16.43
Rob Mann
And then those 2 things are huge.
07:27.86
Rob Mann
Yeah I Ah and this is complete self-serving but I released a course ah on how to set up bullhorn as like the like a bla an admin or a salesforce admin to get the most out of automation but that answers that question like I literally created a course on teachable and I released it like a month ago. For that purpose Brad. So um, you know people are asking the same questions. It's just the pen that that they it doesn't matter what system they're using or we Hollywood industry right? like but whether they're sales folks or T a or staffing recruiting.
07:47.46
Brad Owens
That's amazing.
07:58.64
Brad Owens
Yeah I mean they're all doing the exact same types of things because like you said it all relies on that underlying really good data I see a lot of people trying to collect the entire forest of data like look that.
08:06.60
Rob Mann
Yeah.
08:17.53
Brad Owens
Salary data is good for that moment in time when another recruiter calls them behind your recruiter They all of a sudden are're going to want more money like that that kind of data that everyone's been like oh it's going to. It's what we're going to use to put out this whole God I mean there are la.
08:30.78
Rob Mann
They love putting out salary Reports Brad They love him. Yeah.
08:35.54
Brad Owens
Everybody loves to have their own salary report like okay, great fine. Yep I As a person who is doing that job might check in to make sure that I'm earning as much as my peers but it behooves you to make me think I'm earning less that I got I have never really thought of those as a good thing.
08:50.19
Rob Mann
Yeah I think it's so it makes me it. So let's be honest I'm excited that they're creating content and they're asking their customers questions. So let's celebrate that big win. Um, again to your point. It is just a snapshot and.
08:56.23
Brad Owens
Um, yeah.
09:06.70
Rob Mann
If you make a recruit or fill it all out. It's going to create a bad you know a bad thing. A bad experience for that recruiter right? serve your first customer. So if you can use automation or workflows to help you right? Then you know you can fill in 6 fields and then have.
09:12.76
Brad Owens
Um, yep.
09:25.62
Rob Mann
All the other things for marketing filled out through some kind of workflow or automation that like if this field is filled out with account years of experience is for then guess that the salaryre going to be around this and fill in a couple of skills. So and then if they're wrong, you can fix them right? like it's not It's It's a living thing. It's not a fixed thing I think but 1 of the other things I've been saying a lot this year is if you don't tend to your data just like a garden. It's going to go to crap so you have to you have to have someone minding it.
09:53.88
Brad Owens
I agree with you? What do you think the biggest things they're trying to do with their data is you mentioned reporting and yeah, it makes total sense because staffing recruiting That's really hard to put out.
10:04.10
Rob Mann
Yeah.
10:10.96
Brad Owens
Good financials for like you really can't forecast all that Well what are some of the things you're trying to do yeah.
10:14.35
Rob Mann
No yeah, no, it's good question. So I think for me what I what I see people trying to do is one um, get it's about growth I think I think people are at that stage where.
10:30.49
Rob Mann
They depending on the vertical they really had great. You know, post pandemicmic years and they were not technically post pandemicmic but like 2021 twenty twenty two now you know 2021 we were phasing out and people had massive growth and then you know right now we're in a period of of layoff right? like.
10:44.40
Brad Owens
Talk about layers. Oh yeah.
10:49.26
Rob Mann
Think the blodes going in these big tech companies and companies. So Hopefully we'll get back to to you know, Still unemployment's low. Um I don't know if that's like a false metric but it's definitely a good sign and I think people are trying to grow and then therefore the end result of trying to grow. Is to be more strategic. So How do you?? Yeah use that reporting to help you use good data to help you you you know trim technology fat or anything using good data and then you. Double down to what works and you you know take take educated educated bets right? So you're not playing the slots you're paying playing a table game where you know the stats.
11:35.26
Brad Owens
Know? yeah and don't know you've probably given your timeline. You've lived through a couple of these downturns in the market right now I personally I actually other than the hard times that it's made for my recruiters that were you know highly commission based um. I enjoyed it from a strategic point of view from these dips in the market because it allowed me to focus on those kind of things that I don't really have time to when things are going crazy and I'm trying to close however, many placements a week um I feel like when they are having this chance to calm down and look. This is really a lot of the time that people are going oh geez. We really let that get away from us or oh geez they're really not putting in what we thought they were and it's that point in time where everyone's starting to wake up and say well we should probably work on that. So. It's not surprising.
12:17.70
Rob Mann
Yeah, yeah, what yeah so I think to your point right? Like you know we're the stopping of the recruiting industry talent acquisition maybe feels the same way. Is ah throw people at the problem kind kind of industry. Yeah, and you know they got to go back to what like why we created the podcast is because we wanted to create if you have 10 people who want them to operate like ah you know a hundred or two hundred um yeah sounds cliche. But if you get.
12:35.15
Brad Owens
Yeah Buts and seats. Always yep.
12:52.28
Rob Mann
Those you get the technology and the people train the right way and have the right culture. It's really not Possible. It's really, ah, a doable thing to get all of those things humming and just driving together and it and it might change from year to year I think you do like. You shouldn't be throwing a head count at what could be a technology problem and you shouldn't be buying more technology if you haven't you know like if you look at the if you look at why you got yelled at once for this by a chef friend of Mine. We used most of the yogurt but like there was like at least another spoonful spread out. And she was like no, you don't throw that container away until you get all of it out and I'm like okay Chef I was like the show su Chefy for her. Um, and I think that's really how we can think about technology is like okay we we got 80% of the use of the technology right? which is really good for utilization purposes and adoption. But like. Before we go band-aid by something Else. Can we use the stuff we already have to fill in that gap and like again you need to have a gardener or someone who knows or has time to go do this to get all that out of there and you know you spend how much money. Do you spend on in the Crm. With like the basics to do like I know generally what like a bullhorn or Salesforce charges per seat with all the add ons. Um, and you know if you're going to spend that much money and have 50 seats. You better have somebody who's making sure that that all that stuff's working. Well.
14:19.55
Brad Owens
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
14:22.61
Rob Mann
Whether it's you know, contingent consultant or you know full time. Whatever makes sense for your business but it doesn't make sense to spend all that money and not have not have a person that would help you.
14:31.57
Brad Owens
Know right? or why invest if you're not gonna use it. Um, you don't get a Ferrari to not take it to track days right? Like you're gonna have to go have some fun with it.
14:37.54
Rob Mann
Yeah, and then then that thing is going to the the garage for maintenance way more often than your Honda whether whether that's good for your lot or not but usually when you're buying ary. It doesn't matter at that point. So yeah, well.
14:45.12
Brad Owens
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Hopefully yeah, um. So you mentioned something there that I'd love to get your take on you stumbled into a little bit of the do more with less which I'm here in a whole lot right now. Yeah, so the mentality of how can you make 1 feel like they're working like a hundred I think is how you put it. So my.
15:01.80
Rob Mann
Well, that's that's how you run a recession. Yeah.
15:11.21
Rob Mann
Yeah, ten like a hundred yeah
15:14.95
Brad Owens
Yeah, there you go So my analogy that I always try and show to people and and try and get them in the idea of what your recruiters could be like is I use an airline metaphor. So I say right now they're acting a bit like flight Attendance. They're asking the same questions of everybody they're doing the same things over and over and over again having the same conversations. What if they could act like air traffic controllers and instead see what's going on Intervene when they needed to have that overarching view of everything that's happening and still be able to make the kind of impact and kind of results that you're looking for.. What do you think is kind of standing in the way right now of most organizations being able to do something like that.
15:55.95
Rob Mann
You know the answer ah data paying attention to the right data points and they know tracking the right data points. You know you can't like. Getting good at reporting so an easy the easiest way. Although the analogy by the way by the way flight attendance and air traffic controllers might be the 2 most diaered like different jobs from a skillset perspective. Yeah, everyone know it's about a customer experience but it's just really funny to think about like.
16:19.37
Brad Owens
Um, yeah, it is but I mean they have the same goal right? They want everyone to land at the same point. Yeah yeah.
16:28.87
Rob Mann
The insanity of air traffic and control. Hopefully it's all automatic. You know, automatic. And yeah, there's Ai using fixing it because that is a stressful job back in the day. Hopefully it's still not a stressful. Um, but to your point like having the time or.
16:33.17
Brad Owens
There's a lot of it. Yeah.
16:37.24
Brad Owens
Sir.
16:46.53
Rob Mann
The resources to be like hey staffing company a you know and then this is really so like easy example but hey it's Christmas time you know all the warehouses that you staff usually bulk. You know, bulk up and have a bunch of hiring they have to do so it would be in your best interest. Because it takes you on average fifteen days to get fully staffed like if you need to staff 50 people. It takes you fifty days fifteen days to get it. This is just like me making stuff up right? So that means if you know you need to get you know your customers because you have ai and reporting and like really good data that. Um, november first. They're going to start doing that that means october first or fifteenth you're starting to prepare right? You're you're playing chess instead of checkers right? You're you're really planning ahead and I think companies can do that now. Um. I don't think enough people sit back and look at their data across all verticals of staffing I'm sure like light industrial who do like these high volume gigs know generally maybe they don't like the reports but they have a feeling like when people are going to staff up based on their industry. Um, or you know, kind of run up their their staff. Ah, but. You could really do that for anything right? So you know if you have enough data points coming in or or have a a tool that says like hey yeah like look at tech techrunch is fascinating right? If you ever look at their database. You know they know how much money's being deployed and so it's.
18:14.66
Rob Mann
You know these all these aggreate data points that can lead you to you know someone saying hey we know this vertical in this or this sector is going to need more engineers right? So it's up like that like I Just don't think there's an investment in.
18:25.60
Brad Owens
Yeah, and.
18:33.26
Rob Mann
In the in the lower parts like I'm sure Ron's that at decos of the world. Kelly's they're they're doing these things because they have teams right? like you know Harry Stamper and armgand said is Nasa you have teams you have teams upon teams that are just cooking things up like Kelly and those guys that's really funny quote by the way I'm gonna use that from that 1 I love armageddon come on come on brad.
18:54.81
Brad Owens
it's it's crazy it was actually supposed to be in my friend's movie night watchless two night so that's crazy coincidence. Yeah.
18:58.10
Rob Mann
Oh there, we go awesome. But that's so true like you should have the the bigger guys have teams upon teams looking at data trying to figure these things out getting better. But as you go downstream you know you're you're running a business. Maybe you're running a you know you're trying to grow now. But maybe you're running like a. Ah, lifestyle business and you're okay with just kind of playing it as a team but if you're trying to grow and be strategic. You do need to think like a tech company. You know everyone's a tech company. Um the founder of aid sleep actually was making me laugh have you heard of aid sleep.
19:33.45
Brad Owens
M.
19:36.56
Rob Mann
So it's ah it's a mattress company. Well, it's a tech company they create mattresses or mattress covers that can control the temperature on your side of the bed. So if I'm a hot sleeper and my wife is cold. My side will will stay cooler and keep me asleep and her eye will stay warmer and keep her asleep. So. And then they had to collect data and do all this really stuff really cool stuff. So the the ceo mateo I'm not going to butcher his italian last name today was talking about it like on twitter about another company and they were like you know most hardware companies are just software companies now and I'm like well most companies are tech companies who just do something so. You know the easiest example the best case study domino's is a tech company that makes pizza really they just do really cool stuff with tech all right I don't think the the pizza might be a little bit better than papa john's or whatever but like it's not that much better. They're just they just have that much better tech and software wrapped around it.
20:21.22
Brad Owens
Um, yeah, yeah.
20:33.49
Brad Owens
Her.
20:35.53
Rob Mann
So if you want to be better. You need to I mean we keep coming back the same thing right? serve your first customer with good tech. Let your clients interact with good tech clients candidates and just and just keep working on those things. So.
20:51.89
Brad Owens
Yeah, and you're using examples I help people think of different examples from different industries because you think of things like dominoes like that pizza Tracker like wouldn't that be great to have the same sort of thing for when you're interviewing for a job to know exactly where you stand even from a client's perspective wouldn't it be nice to know where we're at in the hire.
20:54.13
Rob Mann
Anyway, um.
21:07.91
Rob Mann
People are gonna expect it I mean they can do it for pizza you be able to do it for your staff and company.
21:11.41
Brad Owens
Yeah that's the kind of experiences we're getting yes, that's the experience. We're getting when we're not interacting with your staffing firm and now all of a sudden I get a black hole and a call every Friday and a voicemail who leaves voicemails anymore about how many you've actually talked to over the week like it's garbage. But anyway. Not to discourage the rest of people out there that are doing it. It's still a good practice. You got to make everyone happy. Yep.
21:34.10
Rob Mann
I Mean staffing is a great business for people and were recruiting this great business. So I mean they're goingnna keep doing it the way that they're doing it. Um, there will be consolidation. There will be it should There'll be other things but you know if you can if you can run a really profitable business because of good tech.
21:51.95
Rob Mann
With less money and take care of your customers. You know they're going to go there. They're like you're going to work with a customer who has the best experience for the talent. The best experience for the clients and the best you know? let's be honest, recruiters are on a commission plan right? They're going to make money. So. What technology What what company is going to give you the best opportunity to make the money that I want to with the best tools? Yeah yeah.
22:22.21
Brad Owens
That's how what everyone's looking for right now. That's great. So I want to be respectful of your time and I know we're coming up on the end of the hour here so where do you want people to find you interested listeners. Where would you like me to point them.
22:33.82
Rob Mann
Yeah, no I so I um, just the search Robert Mann I have a little apostrophe after my tea and Robert so that I know if you automatically message me on Linkedin but that's the easiest way Rob Manfl on Twitter so it's just Rob and a and n ffl on Twitter.
22:44.60
Brad Owens
Nice.
22:51.46
Rob Mann
And then follow the you and the experience podcast. This is you know? um this is what we talk about day and and day out or we're just I mean I'm fascinated with culture and the way that people and technology work together in culture. So.
23:05.33
Brad Owens
Love it. Well Fantastic! Well thanks so much I appreciate you taking time out to be able to share your ideas and what's been on the podcast on your podcast with everyone who's listening to this one and yeah, you all should be listening to both So go check it out. Um.
23:17.35
Rob Mann
Yeah, please. Ah, we're gonna have you on our soon too. So it'll be fun something. Yeah.
23:20.93
Brad Owens
Let's do it man. We'll trade airtime that sounds fun. Um, so yeah, if anyone wants to hear more about this podcast. It's transform recruiting dot com that'll get you all the episodes if you want to email me directly. It's hello at bradowens.com and I hope to be able to.