Enabling Our Recruiters with Justin Priest
Justin Priest joins me for our first ever LIVE episode of the show. Justin brings a wealth of knowledge around building and enabling recruiting teams. How many tips will you implement in 2024?
Find Justin here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinpriest
Transcript generated from video above
Brad Owens 0:06
I got a treat for y'all today. Very first ever live in person podcast recording with Mr. Justin priests. Thanks for coming to the common grounds coffee shop.
Justin Priest 0:16
Thanks for having me. I've been here many years ago was like the hangout place for the young kids was he 24 hours open play cards, drink coffee, stay up all night. So it's cool to kind of come back in a different tough perspective, having a conversation with you.
Brad Owens 0:30
I appreciate it. So let's give everyone just a little bit of background on you so that they understand kind of where you're coming from here. So just give them the elevator pitch.
Justin Priest 0:38
Yeah, so I've been in staffing recruiting for 16 years, I started with a company Safar technologies in 2007, as a sales rep in Cleveland, Ohio, did that for three years was relatively successful, I guess successful enough, they've felt I could go to Chicago and run that market. Some move there in 2010, with my wife who was newly pregnant, that the time the office was small, it had been through a lot of transition and challenges. So you know, it was a true rebuild in a project type office. And, you know, five years later exited there. The office at the time, I think, was 18, you know, staff. Externally billing, we had three people internally, it was like two and a half million. When I left in 2015, which was to come back to Cleveland, because we had two kids at that point and needed to get back to family. It was around 26 million. So we had grown it substantially. And through that kind of transition, Safar technologies became ronstan technologies, we acquired a company SFM group, which was tech nisource, for folks in the industry familiar with it. And that enhanced our professional services capability. So being able to sell traditional solutions to customers, to which for me, being in the industry, eight years at that point was transformational. It's like what kept me here, as opposed to just constantly chasing job orders, you could start to consultative ly sell with customers. And for me, that was, I think, just a huge shift in my growth. And you know what I did? And so when I moved back to Cleveland, excuse me, I took a senior leadership role running Minnesota and Iowa. And then I've just progressively taken on new roles. Most recently, this year accepted the EVP role for mid market with Enron side technology. So overseeing about 700 million in revenue. Six VPS. We had 40 markets and like 300 sales staff. So it's been a cool journey from 2007. To most recently, you had quite
Brad Owens 2:27
the team? We did. Yes, crazy. So you have seen kind of a little bit of the up and down because we've been through at least two cycles since you started recruiting of the up and downs, absolutely. Writing. So currently today, what do you feel like is facing the market and kind of making the biggest impact on how you and or your teams would have to operate?
Justin Priest 2:49
Yeah, that's a really good question. I think everybody's searching for that, like, you know, special sauce or what's happening in the market. And it seems to be right, where you have strong tenure and relationships with customers and with talent, that's been the biggest differentiator and where you're seeing either markets or customers growing, right. And you're seeing kind of those connection to talent, where it's so important right now, because they're being extremely picky because of remote work and hybrid, and some companies wanting to go back to the office. So that's been the biggest factor that I've seen in where we've won and where we struggle, right. Everybody's out trying to bring in new talent in terms of sales reps, in terms of recruiters, and you're an industry vet, as am I that's a learning curve, right? It takes two years to get really good and connected. And so we're able to maintain your great people. That's where we're starting to see a huge differentiator. And then, additionally, the evolution of how the staffing, recruiting industry, technology has changed, right? And being able to adapt to that and help implement it into your business in an impactful way, and not getting too distracted with just all the tools that are out there. Because there's tons and it can be overwhelming. So just making sure you don't lose focus on really, I mean, it's always this business's fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals,
Brad Owens 4:02
eight, you know, it's been so because I had another conversation recently with someone that I was it was a CEO of another firm, they were talking about, you know, recruiting hasn't changed, it's still there's a person that needs a job, there's a person whose job failed and having a hard time doing it. So they typically match up and hey, there's a recruiter. So that fundamental hasn't changed. And to your first point of what has been kind of the biggest driver of just purely keeping people happy and driving those relationships. Yep, that's amazing. But then you got that tech piece that you've been talking about of? Okay, now, there's this new technology that could potentially do this old, amazing thing. And they were talking about features, features, features, but how does it actually help you in your job and to create those types of relationships? Did you ever find any piece of technology that was like, Oh, my God, this makes relationships so much easier for me, human
Justin Priest 4:49
relationships. I mean, the first one, when I first started, LinkedIn was relatively new. And that was just transformational as a product because now you could kind of create your own virtual Rolodex, and I think Even today with some of the enhancements and features that LinkedIn has added with Sales Navigator and different, you know, things that you can do to organize your contacts or set up campaigns and outreaches, those things have been huge. There's a lot of different products out there that help we've been using a product called Gong, I don't know if you're familiar with a guy outreach tool, super cool. It records your meetings, it actually summarizes what happened in that meeting so that you then have the notes to look at. And we'll give you action items and follow ups that you need to circle back on. And then it will email you reminders. Have you done this? Have you done this. So it's really cool in terms of not only as a sales rep, gauging how you did, right, getting recommendations and how to get better, but as a leader, you can watch meetings that you can attend and give people feedback and help coach them faster. So I think, you know, in terms of on the job training, especially being remote, we all used to sit in an office and you'd hear people run calls or you'd be able to coach on the floor. It gives you kind of that new virtual element, which is a game changer for sure bullpen met, it's so much easier to manage. I say that to people all the time. Like, if we just sit next to each other for a couple of days, it'd be just a game changer for you in terms of what you're learning and how quickly you can ramp up. So
Brad Owens 6:10
do you find yourself as kind of that coaching leader? Do you find yourself having to go back to those a lot? Like, are you really spending a lot of time listening to this thing? And then reviewing it to the other person?
Justin Priest 6:19
Yeah, yeah. Especially like shadowing meetings, or just replaying them and understanding what's happened to be able to give that feedback. That's become, I think, a big focus. And it's a lot more time consuming, because you're having to do it in one on one bites and pieces, as opposed to just, I mean, when I was running Chicago, I sat on the floor surrounded by all 20 people and could hear and stand up and say, Hey, do you have a minute? Like, let's talk about what happened on that call? And like, how could you have done that differently? So it's really challenging. I mean, we've come up with other unique ways, like doing virtual call Blitz is where everybody jumps on a virtual Hangout. And like, turns their volume down a little bit, but then has their line open. So you can hear people making calls, and it creates that buzz so that you feel like some connection because I've even gone into a little bit of BD mode this year, where I'm focused on trying to get meetings and I'm like, it's so lonely making calls all by yourself. It's terrible. You know,
Brad Owens 7:10
I when I started the second firm, it was just me by myself to start things out. And I was like, wow, I missed that big bullpen. That was way different. You
Justin Priest 7:19
have the music up so loud, just some background noise, something to make it feel like there's other people
Brad Owens 7:23
there. Yeah, you know, like background music we
Unknown Speaker 7:25
got going on here. For sure. So like they're grinding some coffee beans right now.
Brad Owens 7:28
I'm Tony ambiance is what this podcasts gonna be about. Now, you've now up the bar. So now I have to go travel to every single person that I'm meeting with. So thanks, I appreciate
Unknown Speaker 7:36
that. Welcome, and Marriott is gonna love it.
Brad Owens 7:39
Alright, so for you, what do you feel like has been the biggest lesson that you had to learn throughout your entire career so far? What was that thing that's the next day you were you had to almost stop your day after it happened. And the next day, you're like, holy crap, that's gonna change me.
Justin Priest 7:56
I think it's early, you learned it early in this business. And it's the need to be resilient and be super even keeled not get too high or too low. I remember my first ever job that I secured with a customer, I got an interview candidate looked awesome. I'm standing in the lobby waiting to walk the candidate in and the candidate know showed a hole and I was like, waiting with the customer. Nobody comes I call the recruiter candidate. Just went MIA, you know, we've all been there. And had that power that to be your first interview. It could have been so easy for me to be like, I'm done. I'm not doing this. And through that, evaluating what could I have done differently? How could it be better? And how do I put myself in a position to be successful? That lesson learning it early on? Well, it was tough. And I think a lot of people might have just said I'm out. And I've seen a lot of reps, you know, after those situations, just never come back to work and say I'm done. This is too much. But that's what this job is constantly. It's getting better every single day, right? And learning from your mistakes and understanding. Mistakes are things that happen that you can't control are a part of it. It's almost like life, right? Like, what? What can you control? What can you control, you can control yourself, you can control your attitude, and what you're trying to do every day. But what you can't control is everything else around that. So you just got to put your head down and say, Is there anything I could have done better? And if I can, I'll implement it next time and not make that same mistake. So
Brad Owens 9:14
explain how you could like looking back on that tiny, tiny kid that was now standing without a candidate in front of a hiring manager could have been there. That sucks the worst? Yeah. Looking back at that kid, what are two things you could have done to make sure that that didn't happen? So that in case someone's listening, they're like, oh, my gosh, I sure hope that doesn't happen to
Justin Priest 9:34
me. Make sure the candidate shows up. Yeah, I mean, the first thing is I should have called the candidate on my way to the interview and said, Hey, I'm on my way to meet you like how you doing? Right. And I think also, I don't know, it was probably a month or so when so had he done a great job of helping to sell the client to the recruiter so that the recruiter when they get on with the candidate could fully prep that candidate and put some sizzle on why this client and opportunity is really good. Right? Kennedy probably had a few other interview Using like, this one isn't that great? And, you know, no big deal. I'm not going to show up. I think even just, you know, having a more confident approach to how I was working with my client, qualifying the job having all the details of it. I mean, there's just so many things that you can do better. But I think back to what is most important relationships, right? Did we have a great relationship with the candidate I don't think we ever brought him in for an in house interview, which I don't even know if that term exists. In today's market, in house interviews, I think he called virtual but do you know, those, bring them in the office sit down with him for 30 minutes or an hour starts to build a relationship. And that kind of gives you that opportunity to have more than one call control. But it is in a way, right? They trust you, they're going to show up because they've looked you eye to eye and they're not going to back out. So
Brad Owens 10:44
it's the ability for that candidate to show some skin in the game, they show up, they finally get a chance to prove themselves in front of someone and then the recruiter is like, alright, this person, I get it. They're here now. Cool. They alleviate some of that, oh, my gosh, are they not going to show up pain? Have you ever seen any, like just the broad term ghosting? Have you ever seen any technology that people have started to implement to reduce that or reduce the likelihood of that?
Justin Priest 11:09
Not as much in reducing the likelihood of ghosting. I know Ron staad was piloting some different kinds of chatbot AI programs that would create more connectivity to candidates. But it also had some like flaws in it as well, because it was just so robotic. Sometimes people would be turned off by the communication and how it came out, you know, but I think in theory, it was right, more touchpoints more communication creates more connection to Ronstadt, or the recruiter says, Help the person show up. I have seen different products to vet out, you know, instead of being ghosted candidates that aren't actually who they are, right, where it can monitor is having a ton, especially virtually more than I've ever seen. And so, you know, it can sense if the person that's talking is actually the person that speaking, it can monitor if they're like looking at other screens or trying to pull in different, you know, ways to cheat an interview. Where's this?
Brad Owens 12:02
I've never even heard of that.
Justin Priest 12:03
It was a product called glider.io. Okay, we use it at Ron staad. For a program we deliver called velocity, which is just heightened screening, advanced delivery of talent to our customers. And it was a really solid product that would just kind of give you the Is this the person that you think they are? How technically sound? Are they based on how they responded to the questions, and then you can make the decision as someone you want your client to interview. And oftentimes clients would just say, because everyone through this program, and they understand it, they can start right away. That's really cool. It's always nice. Yeah,
Brad Owens 12:34
that makes a lot of difference in the checkbook. So on that piece you had mentioned, using like the robotics and the chat bots, and things to create relationships, that starts to bring up that AI thing in my head, because every single person is like, how do I use AI? So crazy, it's gonna be awesome. I realized we started this conversation talking about how our relationships going to be super important. How do those two connect to you, AI and relationships? Is there a connection?
Justin Priest 13:01
I don't know that it's been figured out yet. I feel like the biggest way AI is being utilized today is to help streamline your work processes help write emails or templates and build out different things. I think you can use it in some certain ways for screening. Actually, I heard a podcast you were talking about where you had plugged in a job description and a resume and we're having to ask questions, which I think is really cool. Right. But on the relationship front. I don't know that it's there yet. You know, it does a lot for screening, right? And you can test for aptitude and candidates wherewithal to learn technology products, but I just haven't seen anything that I've been like, Yeah, from a relationship perspective, this is great, because that's probably the reason we're gonna continue to exist through an AI revolution, like this industry is going to be tough to be because it's hard to beat. You and I sitting down having a cup of coffee, or having a cup
Brad Owens 13:49
of coffee that you haven't had your coffee yet. That's why that came out. But
Justin Priest 13:54
you just can't beat the human interaction. Right? So it's gonna be tough. So yeah, I haven't seen anything yet.
Brad Owens 13:59
And I'm with you. And I may have to blow that out and make that a quote and have like, hang that in offices of Justin, pretty soon, there's no chance that AI can replace us because there's nothing that can replace the relationship because I totally agree. Yeah. And with the types of applications that you've been talking about, of like how you can potentially apply AI, what's been the biggest impact for that you've seen either your team or you get out of AI? Has there been any one use case that sticks out?
Justin Priest 14:27
I think the biggest impact that I've seen is it makes you more efficient and able to do tasks that could take I mean, there have been times when I had to put together an article for Ron sod or some sort of a white paper and like using Chechi Beatty, takes me an hour instead of taking me you know, three hours or four hours right? Even with the screening elements and ways that it can help, you know, route up candidates and find the right people or ensure that they are as strong as they say they are. So it's added speed and enhanced. I think even the recruiting game and outweigh right? Because you're able to get from either writing up a skill set summary for a candidate leveraging chat GBT, this is a person's background and experience. Could you write me a one paragraph skill set summary. I mean, I know recruiters used to hate that they'd be like, guys any like three bullet points, I'm like, I can't send three bullet points my client, I need a little something more than that, you know. So if that takes 15 seconds instead of 20 minutes, that's just time that recruiters have to go. Make more money and time kills deals we know. So the faster you can work, the more deals you can close down.
Brad Owens 15:28
And on the the quickness AI is definitely something I've seen to help with the quickness. Yeah, for sure. One of the interesting pieces that I've been seeing come out of technology providers is more around using the AI predictive capability to say what should be next? Yeah, so if this person answered this many different types of questions, and you guys had a conversation that was around this kind of stuff, picking up on the Well, here's what you might have missed. Yeah, here's what we may want to talk about. Here's what the next question you may want to ask to maybe even prevent that next level Gaussian, or whatever it is, what product is that that you've seen. So it's a combination of kind of all of them so on, on Salesforce, they have their AI engine that they call Einstein, Einstein now has, as of this past Dreamforce are released, it's called copilot. So copilot, you're able to essentially teach the AI what skills you want it to have. So you can start with a, like what is a candidate match, you can describe a candidate match to Einstein. So now it knows to start listening for certain things, then as you go throughout your day, if you're starting to enter in a candidate in this profiles in Salesforce now, and you also have a job that's within Salesforce, and it knows to look at both of those and look for potential matches, it can start predicting those things for you, before you're even, you know, like through the entire interview process, you could be like mid interview, it would pop up and say, Hey, based on their responses, they could be a good potential fit for this thing. Think about your new people, you're sitting on desk, their first year out, they have no idea how to do that. I'm
Justin Priest 17:00
just like, kind of like faking it till you make it as the saying always Yeah, but
Brad Owens 17:04
what the trouble that I'm finding that a lot of people are right now in the AI space is the only way that you can actually make use of all that AI is to have your data in a single spot, and the whole CRM, ATS. Everyone's own spreadsheets like data is everywhere right now. So until we can solve that I don't think AI is really going to do a lot for us. Yeah. Have you ever seen like a system that had worked? I understand what you all using it Ronstadt? Yes, I saw it. Yeah. But with all those different systems that you all have, why might you think it's difficult to have all the data in one single system and get everyone behind that one pointer truth?
Justin Priest 17:43
I mean, I think if you look at a lot of organizations, it's probably especially large enterprise organizations, right? Like your top 10. firms. It's the cost. And just because many have come together through acquisitions and mergers, there's data everywhere. So pull that all into one centralized system. While so important. And probably, if you make that investment decision is going to help propel your growth a heck of a lot faster, because you've now consolidated everything into one place where you can truly tap in and leverage it. But it's just the I think shared, like thought of this is so much work. How long is this going to take? And how much is it going to cost?
Brad Owens 18:18
Yeah, and the cost thing keeps coming up current. So I mean, yes, everyone wants to do it. They want that to be the case. It's just show me the easy path. And I don't think anyone's had that. Well, here.
Justin Priest 18:29
It's easy now. Yeah, they just needed an AI to move all the data together. And you're gonna
Brad Owens 18:32
say, that's my next product. Now. I'm gonna go out and develop the AI. I wanted what I want to let you know, anyone that knows how to do AI,
Unknown Speaker 18:39
I'll find some people. I'm a recruiters.
Brad Owens 18:44
Recruiters make the best business owners they do. I could just find the best people all the time. They do.
Justin Priest 18:48
Yeah, yeah. And it's so applicable to your everyday life in terms of you ask questions, you're inquisitive, like almost people that have come from that recruiting background, you can pop into any situation, and they're comfortable and can have conversations and meet people and learn things about them and almost make people feel a little more comfortable being in a situation that they're not comfortable being in. Yeah,
Brad Owens 19:07
that's exactly it. So the AI part of it, the tech that you've been seeing your kind of movement throughout, having a couple of different offices moving different locations. What has been the most fun thing about this industry that has kept you waiting so long? There's not a lot of people that have been at the same company, as long as you
Justin Priest 19:26
did. I think you have to be crazy. First of all, to be in this industry is a little bit like 15 years, you know, I mean, so it's been that it's energizing. Right? It's fun. I've worked with some of the most talented, positive, right? People that every single day have challenged me to become better. And I think just getting back to even that lesson around the candidate not showing up for the interview. If I'm continually progressing and getting better, and I'm working with people that I enjoy, like, I'm excited, right, I'm fulfilled and I want to go to work every single day. But I think it's not been stagnant. If I was still only selling job orders, or only filling direct hire roles, I might get a little bit bored, right. But as you start to get into more talent services or selling bulk teams or selling managed services that really, for me has been what excited me because when you get in front of a CIO, and you can start to consultative ly sell, and you're not just like, what's your budget? How many hires Do you have next year? We are in a hiring freeze, right? I'll call you in six months? Or do you want to upgrade any talent? Right? It's like you're really starting to understand initiatives, projects, right pain points, and then being able to apply different services. So I think a lot of companies are going that route to trying to figure out how do you uncover services? If they've just always been staffing? How do we kind of broaden so that we're not just in a box of, we're not hiring, like, call us when you are? You know? So I think that's been it. It's been it's, it's been fun. It's been cool to watch the evolution of Ron stod, Safar technologies from I walked into, we're here at Cleveland Clinic, when I was an early rep, and one of the customers wanted to do a project. And I came back and asked my boss, like, hey, they want to bring on like, 15 people on this. And he's like, we just don't do that. That's not like something that we do. And I was so bummed out, because I saw like, tons of money and a huge opportunity. Now, that's fine. And now like, you walk in with that opportunity, right? And it's like, we can do that we have experts that can help put the program and solution together and deliver it, and then you go on and focus on the next opportunity. So it's pretty cool. Yeah,
Brad Owens 21:22
the Managed Services part or just services period, right. That has been throughout when I started recruiting, which was also back in 2007. So starting recruiting, then being very much just job working in a job, what are candidates, Mr. Candidate, some of them are temp, some of them are perm, like, it's just that was the way that recruiting was. I did notice, as the economy dropped a little bit, it was more people were conscious of budgets, they didn't want to go more of a temper out, they didn't want to go more the project route. That was fine. I switched with that. And we started doing more temp type stuff. But I noticed that stuck after that, and kind of that early to mid 2010s. That was very much, hey, if you're not doing services related to work or temporary consulting type work in your recruiting firm, you're missing out on a huge revenue stream. Yeah. Now as we think about being on the potential of another downturn, that we've been in the potential
Justin Priest 22:16
kind of sitting in a little bit of one right now, it's definitely been slow. And most customers are like we're on a freeze, or we're watching our spending or budget budgets have been cut. So it feels like we're in the midst of one it's not like the bottom has fallen out. But certainly it's like reminiscent of like 2010 2011, or just kind of like, you're not sure what's going on to
Brad Owens 22:34
slow burn. Yeah. So on that piece of making that jump, what do you feel like the best firms did to create that? Like you call it the consultative selling? What are some of the things that you maybe yourself did or you've seen other firms do that allowed them to have more of a stronghold in that space? Yeah.
Justin Priest 22:58
It's a relationship exercise going back to it, right, because oftentimes, your folks that sell staffing live at the hiring manager level, and they don't typically buy projects and services and teams, maybe three or four resources. But if you truly want to have where you're owning an entire initiative or effort, like getting higher up, the leadership chain is going to make a big impact on that. Because if you're talking to the CTO, and they're going to be rolling out a massive digital transformation, they may have visibility into honor 150 Plus headcount that they need to add to execute that. If you get to the SVP level, maybe it's 5075. Right. So moving up in that way, but then also, I think, training and developing of your staff to get out of that just transactional, do you have a job order and it's not for everybody, that's one thing we found is some people just have to do staffing. Some people can do staffing services and perm. Some people can only do perm, some people can only do services, right? So just making sure I think you're taking the time to assess people's capability, put them in the situation, because I think a huge part of this is you gotta get comfortable being uncomfortable. That's like saying that, you know, we all here many times, but if they just can't get there, but they're phenomenal at staffing, like just keep doing staffing, you know, so where we found the most success was moving up in our relationships within customers trying to get to more executive level buyers, having conversations around what they're trying to do. I think having subject matter expertise within your organization is extremely important too. I really saw the services take off as we had more subject matter experts that I could bring on meetings with me in front of customers that could talk about I've delivered this project for this customer and whether they did it here or somewhere else, there's a ton of credibility that comes with that versus me who's like the staffing guy that can do services, you know. So those things have helped ramp in quickly helped growth in services, which has been a big segment in the businesses that I've been leading and running.
Brad Owens 24:46
Sure and being able to speak their language that is totally a game changer. But that to your point, that's not exactly the people we've been hiring for so long. We've been hiring like these hunters, the people that I'll go out and just fight for all that stuff. Some subject matter experts Like, that's not their jam like they've been delivering for a long time. Yeah, that was a totally different type of hire. I'd never had to do that before. And when I started bringing on some of those people say, Oh, this is different. They're
Justin Priest 25:09
like, wait, I'm not gonna make a phone call to anybody. But I'll be on any meeting you want me on? Right?
Brad Owens 25:13
It's totally different management style. Well, that's awesome. So I promise you, I'd keep the episode under half hour, and I want everyone that's walking their dog to be able to hear it all in one dog walk. But when you think about what's next, when you think about the biggest thing, it's going to transform recruiting over the next two years? Yeah, what's in your mind?
Unknown Speaker 25:32
That's a good question. You didn't prep me for that one. So I gotta think about it for a second.
Brad Owens 25:36
Um, those asking those hard hitting once you do your hard hitter,
Justin Priest 25:38
I like it. I think it's, it's not going to transform that much in terms of, I've talked to a lot of executive leaders from different companies out there. And one of the leaders that I talked to, had said, his focus is on capturing talent market share within the markets. It's not on shifting to some verticalized strategy. It's not in shifting to some AI driven strategy. But do we own the talent market share within the markets that we operate, and if we do, we're actually going to beat our competition, because we know the most candidates, we're gonna have the most people working for customers, we're gonna have the most leads and be able to grow our and I thought that was really a huge shift from where everybody else thinks, which is sales. And do we know the most customers and do we have the most customers, but if you maximize your talent, wallet, share your your talent market share, you're going to be in a preferential position to drive people into customers, you know, and it's a company that's probably one of the fastest growing right in the IT staffing and services space. But, you know, over the next few years, things that are going to change AI is going to continue to have an impact, like we've talked about. But I think he may even back to what we've talked about, like the fundamentals are always going to be there anytime you start to stray. And then you look back and say, Why didn't I grow as fast? It's like, oh, I stopped focusing on quality of job orders. I stopped setting up interview feedback calls, I stopped, you know, prepping candidates and it's like, all those things are always going to be there.
Brad Owens 27:00
Now they really will. I appreciate you taking time out at the amazing coffee shop that you found the good, good find. Thank you. Where can people find you? Where do you want them to find out more about Justin?
Justin Priest 27:12
Yeah, check me out on LinkedIn, Justin priest, Cleveland, Ohio. I'd love to connect with new people and definitely open to conversations if anybody's interested in having further dialogue past this podcast. I appreciate you having me on that was really cool to sit down and do this in a coffee shop. Now
Brad Owens 27:26
it's cool experience. First one, hopefully first one of many, but thanks so much. I really appreciate it. I will have a link to his LinkedIn down in the description of the show. If you want to hear more like this. It's at transform recruiting.com If you got any ideas of people or topics that you want us to discuss, send me an email to Hello at Brad owens.com. And until we get a chance to talk again. I hope you all have a fantastic week and we'll talk soon