Technology Fundamentals with Landon Ziemke

Learn best practices and technology fundamentals that should be in place for creating the most value from your data with Helpstone.io's Landon Ziemke.

Find Landon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/landonziemke/

[Transcribed from video above]

00:05.15

Brad Owens

Hey everybody welcome into this episode of the transform recruiting podcast I'm your host Brad Owens and with me today I've got Landon Zemke landon welcome in man.

00:15.55

Landon

Hey Thanks! Thanks! So so much for having me I'm I'm excited to be here I'm excited for this podcast too I'm really glad you're starting it.

00:24.76

Brad Owens

Yeah, there's not enough people talking about what the future could hold and what we can do about it. So apparently Linkedin wanted it when I posted it up. So yeah I'm happy to be doing it. Ah so let's give everyone kind of your background.

00:26.74

Landon

Yeah, yeah for sure.

00:33.15

Landon

Ah, indeed.

00:37.78

Brad Owens

So we can understand where you're coming from So why don't you introduce yourself.

00:41.66

Landon

Yeah, yeah, and I'll try to keep this. You know somewhat short. Um because I have kind of a long and winding path as to how I got to where I am today. so um so ah

00:49.33

Brad Owens

Love it.

00:53.83

Landon

I started started my career in sales initially selling consulting services and then moved into moved into the staffing world. A little bit later versus an account manager and then moved into recruiting um through. All of that time where I was um, you know selling hitting the phones um making offers all those kind of things I was always the ah the systems and process nerd in the room. Um, and and I couldn't help myself. Um, in fact I think I bothered my managers sometimes because. Um, you know they'd be like okay you're you're at the whiteboard again like go make calls I'm like no we got to we have to like optimize this process because it's taking us way too long to submit candidates. You know? and so um, so I just I just was drawn to it So um, had an opportunity to.

01:34.62

Brad Owens

Been there? yeah.

01:49.26

Landon

I start to get into the world of technology directly myself. Um, when I joined a firm that was a little bit smaller and I could wear a lot of hats and I knew that they were implementing salesforce and and salesforce was a tool that I'd wanted to get my hands on for quite a while. And um, and so I knew that if I took that that lead recruiting role I could probably raise my hand and and and run that project and so ah so I got the role I got into the company and in kind of day. 1 said hey you know is anyone running this project. You know or what do you want to do with this project. They're like. You can have it. We don't want it hear. It's yours congratulations and so um, so so I took and ran with that project and um and was very successful with it if I can have an egotistical moment there. Um it was it was it was a situation where.

02:44.39

Brad Owens

Um.

02:47.19

Landon

It was going poorly and I was able to kind of hurt all the cats and and bring it to a point of success and inside of that I started to get my chops around admin work and more technical work and then also at the same time developed. Ah, little product I don't know if I've told you this brad but developed a product called wizbang which was a sales note taking app and so ah so this was this was before and in the timing is everything right? So this was before Siri. And ah, you know Alexa all all the voice technology that we're so accustomed to today. Um, really hadn't taken off at the time and so ah, the the idea behind this tool was that you could leave a sales meeting or recruiting meeting. Onsite somewhere jump in your car call this number and then it would ask you questions that you'd preprogram to ask yourself when you left a meeting and it would then voice transcribe those responses and then when you got back to your desk. There would be this transcribed. Conversation sitting in your email inbox that then you could use to follow up. Um, so um, so actually I think it's ah it's funny I just had a client the other day ask for basically that and so I'm like maybe it's maybe it's time to to brush that off and and do something with it. But um.

03:59.49

Brad Owens

Now How fun is that.

04:15.51

Brad Owens

That's awesome.

04:17.76

Landon

But it was it was ahead of its time. Ah in that we couldn't get the voice transcription to be accurate enough for it for it to work especially in challenging environments like if you'd drive a car. So um I think we could do it today. But in any case.

04:29.22

Brad Owens

Sure.

04:34.48

Landon

I had the opportunity to go through kind of a full full life cycle technology build with that just moonlighting though that was just totally on the side me and a developer working at night weekends learning learning learning. So um, so had the opportunity to get in salesforce stuff had the opportunity to do that on the side and um. Ah, eventually crossed the pond. So um, got got out of sales and recruiting role into product management and project management and um and had a a ah little stint with um optim or united health group which is ah very very large. Organization um salesforce customer I know um and was there for a little period of time and then went and um jumped into the world of consulting to help implement salesforce for a property management company. So. Stepped outside of the industry for a minute. Um I was there for about a year they were a venturef funded company that um, ran out of money or at least ran off enough money to pay contractors and so um, so ah, so you know. Small world. Um I had actually placed the cto there as a recruiter and I had placed him twice in his career and so so he and I were buddies and so he pulled me aside and said hey you know, ah everyone else has to go now I've gotten you a few more weeks.

05:53.31

Brad Owens

That.

06:08.71

Landon

And um, you know, but after that you got to you know, take off and so I I told them that I had this idea for what is now helpstone which is my current company. Um, and I had I had started again, kind of working at night working on and the weekends. Doing some sideline stuff that aligned with this idea I had and I said hey um I'd like to bring this to life the projects I'm working on here are critical. You know that could we do like halftime and then I could launch my own thing and um and so he said well that's. Thats something that we maybe can do so you I'll go talk to the Cfo. Get back to you more critically I needed to go talk to my wife and get her her her buy-in um, ah yeah, it is so um, so in any case, um.

06:56.31

Brad Owens

Yep, that's a family decision.

07:04.95

Landon

Thankfully the cfo and my wife both said this was a go and so from there when started to pursue my own clients as well as you know doing this consulting work on the side. Um, and I had my first clients after like nine days and um what was really pointed at the time. Or what sold my wife at least was that I started doing cold outreaches describing to ah people what I was trying to you know what? what? I was intending to bring into the world and um I got like 80% return rates on those outreaches to cold cold. You know? ah. Cold relationships and so I'd been in sales and recruiting long enough to know that unless you're you know, putting your finger on the pulse of something that's real. You're not going to get that kind of response and so um, so it gave me the confidence to to take that jump and so from there. Um. Really, you know, initially we worked on um, job science customers. Um, that was that was our initial push. Um and then quickly got into working with other Ats providers um talent rover target recruit and then um. Came across the idea of just using salesforce natively as an ats and that's that's the idea we've been kind of riffing on. Um you know ever since we did our first project there which was probably about three years ago when we did our first project to help a company who had formally had salesforce on the recruiting side.

08:22.22

Brad Owens

E.

08:39.90

Landon

They'd use all sorts of atses on the and the and the um sorry I said the recruiting side they they had Salesforce on the sales side of things. They'd use all sorts of atses on the recruiting side. You know nimble Bullhorn Google Hire spreadsheets all the things and um.

08:56.10

Brad Owens

Yep.

08:57.23

Landon

I decided to bring it all under 1 umbrella inside a salesforce and do that without an Ats overlay and it was very successful until this day is very successful and has allowed them to grow and scale massively as a company and um really is a reason they've grown now probably not. But. it's it's it's work yeah we'll take it so it's it's worked well and that so that sparked the idea of of that being a really good path for for companies. So um, so yeah I guess I I can go more into you know the history of of helpstone. But I think we're here to talk about other things as well. Um.

09:17.86

Brad Owens

We'll take it now.

09:35.00

Landon

But but yeah, we've we've you know as I started the company. Of course you can do anything right when you're it's it's greenfield when you're starting a company and so um, so we decided to focus only on the staffing and recruiting space. Um, and we decided to focus only on sales Salesforce. So Um. Have had you know other ideas over time, especially as we started um about okay, let's focus on other technologies or perhaps other industries that kind of thing but really um, have done very little of that we've been very focused so it's it's kind of we've just been marinating in in this world. Ah, both from a technology standpoint and and industry standpoint ever since we started. So yeah, yup.

10:19.37

Brad Owens

Nice So you've been seller. You've been recruiter. You've been designer. You've been an architect. You've been an implementer. Um, you've done a good amount of things so you've seen it from a bunch of different sides. So when you look at the industry as a whole now.

10:31.32

Landon

Yes, yeah.

10:36.88

Brad Owens

What in the world are we dealing with right now.

10:39.83

Landon

Ah, yeah, it's it's Interesting. You know I was I was I was thinking about this. You know this question. Um you know and and I guess I'm kind of always thinking about that question right? So Um I think that. You know there's several things that that that that came to mind as as as preparing for our conversation today. Um, but but I think that the the overall piece that that really I think glues it all together is is that.

11:12.27

Landon

I've seen a huge lack of ah what I would call technology fundamentals inside of staffing firms. So ah so um, data that ah that agrees with itself and um.

11:21.30

Brad Owens

That's a new term all right fundamentals. What are the fundamentals.

11:30.75

Landon

Architecture that's simplistic and and something that you can report against and um and this is a big one is is is having people actually use a technology that's set up. Um, there's there's huge huge problems with that. Um, and and it's um.

11:41.33

Brad Owens

Okay.

11:50.49

Landon

You know, of course it's being more on the technology side for me. It's it's frustrating because there's all this cool stuff that gets set up and then and doesn't get used a lot of times and so I definitely want to riff on that as well as kind of its own topic. But. Um, but yeah I I think that um, it's it's really easy to get swept away in um, looking at the shiny objects or or being attracted to the shiny objects when it comes to technology and and so I've thought about this a lot and and I even I just I just listened to a podcast. Um. Ah, ah well I don't know if you ever listen to art of Manliness Brad but it's it's a heck of a heck of a podcast. Um, so and he talks about all sorts of things. Um, but 1 that I listened to recently was um was titled the future is analog and.

12:31.60

Brad Owens

I've heard of that one? yeah.

12:44.64

Landon

And I thought that it was it was fascinating. Um, and you know we we've we've been ah swept into this idea that that the future is digital. Um, and and do I think it is yeah I think it is but I would also say that um covid.

13:02.66

Brad Owens

Here.

13:02.79

Landon

Put that to the test and education. Well it worked sort of with technology. It didn't really right there. There were huge deficiencies when it came to education. Um, ah.

13:18.16

Brad Owens

Yeah, those poor kindergartners first experience of school.

13:22.63

Landon

Yeah, no, no kidding no kidding. Um, ah when it came to to retail which for years we've said retail is going away. Well guess what? as soon as those stores reopened people started coming back. It was not hard to get people to come back to the stores. Um, so. Um, so so I think that ah I think that while certainly technology is important and and it's what I live and and breathe every day. Um, there is this people component to it that I think is many times undervalued and um is something that. Really if we can harness the people side and kind of bring those analog and those digital worlds together I think that's where we'll really see value. Um, going forward. Yeah.

14:14.42

Brad Owens

Sure So these technology fundamentals I am kind of seeing the same things as you of you know there's no focus on one single anything. There isn't there while you have to at points just get things done.

14:25.74

Landon

Um.

14:33.44

Brad Owens

And that means having to put butts and seats and make phone calls I mean that's just has to happen. Um, but when you give people that autonomy to just hey make these phone calls. They're going to have the same autonomy with the technology that they use they're going to.

14:38.36

Landon

A.

14:51.46

Brad Owens

Open that excel spreadsheet because it's easier because they don't have to learn your system. They're going to put things just in their notes app because that's what they have? What are you seeing is kind of the the first step to solving this.

14:57.65

Landon

Right.

15:08.31

Brad Owens

Technology fundamental problem.

15:10.46

Landon

Yeah, well I I think that I think one of the big things is is making sure that that the technology that's built is is actionable. Um, and what I mean by that and one one of the things we do with a lot of clients. Is is help them get out of spreadsheets and even the ones that use technology you know well I would say are still using spreadsheets to manage a scary portion of their business and so yeah, yes, yep, yep, And so.

15:36.77

Brad Owens

Um, yeah, top firms in the world world are still doing that like the majority of their business. Yeah.

15:46.30

Landon

You know I think about 1 client who um had a really elaborate spreadsheet to track where they were at with candidates currently, um, you know that that are that were currently pursuing open roles and um and they they had in that case talent Rover. Ah, implemented. They had an Ats um, they kind of sort of had all the data they needed but they were still using the spreadsheet to manage that process and ah and more tactically they were using it in their morning meetings and so rather than opening up. Salesforce every morning or or any database I guess it doesn't have to be salesforce I mean it's a world I've chosen to live in but whatever your ats is rather than opening that up and saying where are we at currently with all this stuff with with these candidates in this process. They're open up spreadsheet every morning and so. Ah, with them and and many other clients. What what? I've done is I've focused on those kind of things that said, okay, what would it take to put together a dashboard to put together reports to put together a way to visualize that data and then interact with it inside of a meeting and. And that's when you start to win that game because then as as you're preparing for that as a recruiter or a salesperson and you know that morning meeting is coming up. You're not going to a spreadsheet to update the stuff you're going to your system of record to update the stuff and and then that.

17:15.22

Landon

That creates that kind of social pressure and and and accountability to actually input that information and so um, so so it's it's doing that and again we've done it successfully with um you know, many companies. Um.

17:30.74

Landon

And and it's it's really rewarding I mean remember sitting in one of the first clients that that we ever signed um remember sitting in a morning meeting with them watching them go through the the kaban board that I'd put together for them. Ah you know for their candidates in process and it was like you know warm my heart you know because.

17:47.61

Brad Owens

Yes, yep.

17:50.76

Landon

Ah, because they used to do it. They used to do it on a whiteboard and very visual. Great. But then they're like they're always like okay did we update the system or not and and you kind of get to this place where whatever system you're using ends up being the um. And ends up being like an administrative afterthought or something that's kind of another task to do rather than being a tactical tool to move things forward.

18:08.93

Brad Owens

Yeah, yeah, yep, now that's good point I mean if you make it a ah mandate from the top of hey this is what we're going to review. They're not going to be the ones that didn't update like.

18:21.60

Landon

Yes, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, hundred percent and I guess the the other other example, um you know and this is this has a lot of teeth so you got to be careful this kind of thing but even tying like commission to ah getting.

18:24.32

Brad Owens

It's a change management thing is ah a big deal for this.

18:33.10

Brad Owens

Are oh.

18:38.96

Landon

Getting Let's say an opportunity through to a close status or having there be you know validations and plays that hey this information has to be in before you can make money off of this again, people pay attention and yeah.

18:53.89

Brad Owens

Yeah, they do start messing with how I make money. Um I'm listening now.

18:57.14

Landon

Yeah, exactly So you know and like I said you have to be careful with that kind of stuff but the same point. Um, you know you don't want kind of this this shadow system of spreadsheets and post-it notes and whiteboards um that you're trying to like translate into your main system all the time.

19:14.25

Brad Owens

Yeah, actually said this on a recent recording. So um, avid listeners will know. But when we have these conversations with top firms in the in the country and abroad. We recently had a conversation where. Ah, they were going through the same sort of things they had data everywhere. They didn't really know where it was their reporting wasn't accurate. They couldn't forecast their business so we went through this exercise with them of all right? Let's sit beside the people that are doing the work. Let's figure out where all this data actually lives first because if we don't know where it is. We can't do anything with it.

19:47.56

Landon

Right.

19:49.76

Brad Owens

And at the end of this process. We came up with kind of this this map of where everything was and the I T leader that was involved in this like top sea level leader and I t said oh Wow I didn't know we had that much data coming in from all these places I know and.

20:06.24

Landon

Um, yes.

20:06.25

Brad Owens

It's just an amazing exercise. So yes I'm with you I feel like if we can get a hold of one where is all of our data. That's a good start and then why is it There is there a purpose to this being there is it just because this thing's not easy to use Well then cool we can figure that out but you can't do this from your I mean I.

20:17.61

Landon

Ah.

20:20.79

Landon

Right.

20:26.14

Brad Owens

Hate the term but you can't do this from your Ivory Tower you have to go sit beside people and figure out how they're doing it or at least have a team that's going to go do it And yeah I'm seeing a lot of people get a lot of value out of that.

20:30.68

Landon

Yup, right? right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, well and I think that that leads into and and again kind of the. There is this theme that you'll hear through through everything I say here but but it it does lead into making sure that you have the right people in place to to drive your technology and process. So um, so so one of the things that that we do and we encourage our clients to do you know when we're not in the room. Is ah to be a watcher at the wall for for new ah new spreadsheets or new ways that data is getting tracked. It's again outside of the source of truth and so to go. Okay, let's not spin up another spreadsheet like let's add. 1 field and a report and track this where all the other data is right? and so um, so it's just it's it's having that like in the moment um tracking of like hey let's let's not do this. Let's not. You know, perpetrate that or perpetuate the the ah the issue. Um, and then and and I think more broadly. Ah you you need you need people to ah to to help drive change a lot of times too. Um, and of course we're in the in the business of change most of time when we're hired. There's there's change happening. Um, but but but man people are.

21:59.30

Landon

Critical inside of that and if you if you don't have um if you don't have the right people in place to help actuate the change you might in in some ways you might as well. Not do it. So.

22:18.59

Brad Owens

Yeah I agree and I feel like they aren't going to find those people that are actually doing this day in and day out. You need a third party perspective to say hey, ah you all might be missing something over here and I saw it this way because they wouldn't be where they were if they. Had some outsized perspective coming in and looking at this thing or someone like a landon on their team that says we could do better at this kind of stuff listen to those people.

22:54.99

Landon

Yeah.

23:02.00

Landon

Yeah, right, right? Yeah because I just say I think it's both right because I think that there's there's there's 1 thing for an outsider like myself to come in and go um, hey you should be doing it this way. Um, or you should be thinking about this. And another thing for there to be internal poll hopefully by a leader um to say we are going to do it this way. Um, and and I think you need both I've I haven't seen it be very successful if you just have one or the other. Yeah.

23:25.46

Brad Owens

Um.

23:30.23

Brad Owens

Yeah, yep, agreed so let's wrap up the episode by giving you your dream unlimited budget unlimited people un limitedmited resources. What would you create change that would affect this industry for years to come.

23:49.12

Landon

Yeah, well I'm like I'm working on it right now. Um, so so so you know it it goes back to it goes back to this fundamental piece. Um I'm I'm a really big believer in um, platform.

23:53.61

Brad Owens

Ah, there you go.

24:06.81

Landon

Centric technology built so it's the reason again that I'm a salesforce guy is that there's so much you can do with that one platform. Um the you know the the problem still persists today that there are.

24:07.42

Brad Owens

With sure.

24:25.57

Landon

Ah, way too many platforms or or individual pieces of software that companies are using and trying to like lace together to have it all worked well. It's it's complicated I mean just looking at an architectural diagram the other day of a new client that we're potentially working with and it's um, there's a lot. There and for that to all work. Well together. It's tough. It's tough and so um and so if if I had all the the money in the budget in the world. Um, inside the next year I would finish off all the product build I want to build around creating all a cart plugin.

24:45.90

Brad Owens

Yeah, so.

25:00.59

Landon

Plug and play tools for the salesforce ecosystem to help drive recruiting in sales and staffing. So um, so we're we're in the process of that we we built a resume resume parser and viewer about a year ago that came on the market called parsley and. Ah, we're currently in the works and it actually just got accelerated through ah a partnership deal that I'm I'm still working out so I can only say so much about it. But we're working on a time tracking tool now again a plug and play all a cart if you need it, you can get it if you don't you don't need to get it um type of tool. Um, that allows for time tracking for contractors. Um, which I think will be a huge win. Um, there's yeah, there's several other tools that that we want to build as well. Um, things like a great connector to Linkedin recruiter. Um, a really great connection and easy setup job board and application process. Um, and and then um, onboarding onboarding is a big topic right now we're involved in multiple deals right now where we're trying to automate onboarding. Make it quicker and easier. Especially interestingly like travel nursing as an example, um, there's an incredible amount of paperwork you need to go through to get those people onboarded and usually it's going very very fast and so um, again, creating a discretionary tool that you can choose to say yes to.

26:30.38

Landon

Um, if you need it and and you don't need to add it if you don't need it and so just creating um all these tools that plug into this very very dynamic open Lego set of ah of a platform in Salesforce um to to help create that flexibility going forward for companies to grow. And I guess the only other thing I'll add to that is um, is that is that there's a shift right now in some companies from a very Candidate-centric Market to more of a sales and marketing Centric market and um and so a lot of times Firms have. Ah, when when you were just focused on candidates and like that's the only thing Um, it's easy for those sales and marketing ah muscles to atrophy a bit and so what I think is awesome about Again. Salesforce is that you can you can shift really quickly into that mode and Pursue new business or business development and marketing Efforts. Um. Much more easily than than a lot of tools out there. So Anyway, that would be what I'd love to bring to the world.

27:31.10

Brad Owens

Nice I Liked your point there about adding on these things so that you can grow. It's not you don't have to buy it all up front. You don't have to be a all right? This is the perfect system for us. We're using it for everything like yeah, that's just not how it's gonna work. Yeah, so I love it all right.

27:42.30

Landon

Right? No it not not reality.

27:48.98

Brad Owens

Ah, so Landon you gave a lot of good advice here on what people should be doing with their data I mean at the very basics is what we're really talking about here so where do you want people to find you if they have additional questions or want to continue the conversation.

27:54.31

Landon

Yes, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you can find me at helpstone ionot.com won't get you anywhere So helpstone Io and and also you can look at our our products at Parsleydot I O So it's PARSLI.

28:19.11

Brad Owens

Perfect all right? Well Anna really appreciate the perspective. Thanks so much for coming on if you listeners would like to hear a little bit more about this podcast and what we're digging into you can listen at transformrecruiting.com if you got any sort of insight like to be a part of the show.

28:19.97

Landon

I o.

28:35.29

Brad Owens

Or just want to talk give me ah an email. It's hello at bradowins.com thanks so much again for listening. We will see you on the next one.

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