What's Wrong with Talent "Matching" Today? with Gary Benedik
According to Gary Benedik, the main issue affecting recruiting right now isn't complex, but it's difficult to solve. Perhaps technology won't be able to solve your underlying issues. Listen to Gary's thoughts on what's affecting success in putting people to work.
Find Gary here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garybenedik/
Transcript below has been auto-generated from content above
Brad Owens
Welcome back, everybody to another episode of the transform recruiting podcast I love that in my day job I get to come across people who I think are doing just amazingly not so much futuristic, but amazingly impactful. Things in their day jobs and being able to you know, really approach how they recruit completely differently and I came across one such person who was kind enough to come on the podcast today. Mr. Gary Benedict welcome sir no of course of course like I said I was really? ah.
00:38.48
Gary Benedik
Thank you for having me brad.
00:45.15
Brad Owens
Ah, really taking it back the very first time we talked to went all right. This guy gets it more people need to hear about how he's trying to approach these things so before we dig into that. Why don't you give everyone just a little bit a background on yourself kind of where you're coming from and we'll jump in right.
00:52.65
Gary Benedik
In.
00:59.36
Gary Benedik
no pressure ah no pressure whatsoever but um so in ah in a long elevator speech brad my background starter off in search I was a full desk head hunter back in the boiler room environment days. I actually graduated college with an undergrad and engineering technology and I went to a firm for them to get me a role in the functional vertical of engineering and they flipped it at me and all of a sudden I was a recruiter making 0 and it was a hundred percentation. But 5 years there did well financially but I matured a bit my career and I did not want to pigeonhole myself in third party search at that time. So the next step was moving internal and I went internal ta at a large retailer that we probably all have heard it is since went bankrupt but it was. Thriving when I was there so I really wanted to to understand the buying behavior of what I was selling so I led a large group of corporate recruiters and the volume was significant. It was 10000 plus hires a year and we're touching well over a million candidates. Annually. I'll get to this I left that sinking ship in about 2013 and I became super curious about technology. This is when the gig economy was exploding. There was reference to ai and machine learning and all the who luck.
02:20.59
Gary Benedik
So left the corporate world and I started consulting with startups in the city of Chicago around matching talent to jobs in an intelligent quote unquote way. So I started building a couple marketplaces mainly through with the manipulation of crms at the time you're just matching. People to jobs through fields that were built and parsing I then did ah a 2 year stand at manpower group I think we're all familiar with manpower a giant in the industry where I became ah ingrained in the Msp business high volume low margin as well as um. Other other lines of businesses around like out placement right? Management manpower etc spent 2 years there then I was recruited to go to a saas recruitment marketplace driven off of the buzzwords that we like to hear around ai machine learning that was intelligently matching about 500 employers 15% of the fortune 500 companies to 3500 staffing and recruiting firms. The interesting piece about that. It's quite a large amount and so we did a bunch of we did a bunch of research and you know previously we were matching I was matching talent to jobs now that match works.
03:25.89
Brad Owens
That's quite a large amount.
03:37.34
Gary Benedik
However, the output wasn't as pure because jobscriptions are a home otherther conversation and talent inflates their experience on paper. So the actual machine was matching the right to inputs but the person wasn't really able to do the job at at at. At the rate we wanted them to so what we did is we injected this layer of quote unquote experts these 3500 staffing and recruiting firms were were deemed as experts in a certain job category and ge even down to the job Subcategory so when a large bank dropped in several dozen recs. Into our marketplace we were able to match those wrecks and predict how long it would take to fill them with the feed percentage should be the candidate experience which recruiters were activeive etc. So my kind of recruitment marketplace experience evolved from talent to job matching but actually. From there to a layer of expertise to kind of prevent that talent the job matching now technology has gotten better since then that company was abruptly acquired acquired in June of 22 I'm sorry 2020 and I started my own firm called Arch Advisorer group and. To be honest with you. My focus with building arch advisory was exactly not like the firms I worked with and or for throughout the past. So we we built arch advisory on 3 key pillars transparency authenticity and speed.
05:05.94
Gary Benedik
It was a wild ride for about three and half years and I was fortunate enough to to get acquired late last year in 2023 so I am now a part of Aveneca which is a mission driven organization matching early in careers folks to jobs in high volume strictly through. Leveling and personal assessments not resumes not internships, not classes or job descriptions I hope that helps.
05:31.85
Brad Owens
It certainly does and I'm sensing a theme throughout all of this stuff when we start thinking about what truly is a match for a job. What is a talent Match. What is an actual match for. Kind of people you're going to be working with whether it's the firm you're working with to do that or anything else. It seems like that's kind of one of the big themes that's coming out of that. So when you think about the recruiting industry. Overall, What do you truly feel like is affecting our industry right now that you feel like maybe we're not. Paying the right amount of attention to or not exactly aware of how it's hitting our industry right now.
06:13.10
Gary Benedik
Yeah I think I will respond to this brad and just some real life experiences that I've had over the last year or 2 right? Specifically you know post covid in this world really trying to normalize, especially within the recruiting industry I think some of the largest. Things affecting the recruit industry is actually humans and when I say humans. It's actually recruiters at hiring managers right? like we could talk about talent shortages and remote work dynamics and you know the candid experience and skills gaps and all the stuff that we're talking about today. But. You talk about like the pure match in the expectations and the reality of wanting to fill a role on the employer side and them thinking the way that they used to do it is the way they should do it today. I think that's what's affecting success.
07:04.60
Brad Owens
Tell me all about that I'm I'm all ears because that is right in my wheelhouse I Love talking about that stuff.
07:13.14
Gary Benedik
So example I had a meeting this morning with a large client or' the manufacturing sector and we're working on kind of a high level sales role and it's a mix of sales and also service and ah we are able to identify the profiles that. This hire manager wants to see that's easy right? We do cia shit. We find people all the time. The I think where there's what's affecting success and putting people to work is the the deep prioritization of understanding that. Talents that we find wants to work for you wants to work for that company is aligned to that job description is aligned to the compensation is aligned to the travel requirements. So there's actually like 2 key pieces to this match. It's not just the employer wanting the right person to fill a. To fill a gap or solve a problem they have but it's that compounded with having the other side aka the candidate agree to wanting what's going to be happening in their experience at that company if that makes sense.
08:23.31
Brad Owens
It does it can I put it in kind of a childish way that I used to um I used to have speaking engagements that are all around this kind of topic that you're speaking on right now. So when I used to talk about it I used to Think. Why are you? Why is the company. The hiring manager or just company in general. Why is the job description. That's so amazing to work here. It's so Awesome. This is why you're going to want it. It's going to be great for you. Okay, you don't really know if that's what they actually want out of the job yet. They haven't even interviewed with you.
08:58.00
Gary Benedik
Um, next.
08:58.52
Brad Owens
They have no clue what in the world are you trying to sell them on when you don't know what their pain points are or what they're actually looking to change that used to hit people and they're like well we need candidates though. I'm like well yeah, but those are kind of different things. Um, it seems like that's kind of how you think as well like. Yeah, you can push this whole thing but are you sure they even want that.
09:18.54
Gary Benedik
Exactly and we try to before we engage in a search, especially if it's executive or professional. We try to come to the table with some data some markets scrape to say this is the valuable talent. This is the total available market based on what we're hearing you want. Right? So that there's already like the expectation and say here's the list of 50 For example, it doesn't mean 50 are interested in the job. That's the second step right? There's a whole nother phase to this this process. Um.
09:50.38
Brad Owens
Yeah, and that was always the fun part as a firm owner to you know, kind of coach our recruiters on is that intake conversation with the hiring manager right? Not only do you have to help them set expectations but you have to be almost that bear of bad news when they come to you and say. Everyone should want to work for me in this job and I'm going to do all I can to eliminate all the other options into what I'm left with is perfection and you have to end up transferring that conversation more into you might want to open up what you're looking for here because here's the total market and out of all of those you're thinking what maybe 10 20% may even be open to hearing about you. And then 5% may not even may hopefully if you're lucky, be actively looking for a new job so that's a tough conversation to have it. How did you set your recruiters up to have that kind of conversation.
10:40.22
Gary Benedik
And I don't want this to be like a glass f empty conversation. Brad I mean there's tons of organizations and forward thinking and modern hiring managers and leaders and employers right? So you know so with that being said, if if.
10:50.73
Brad Owens
Um, oh sure.
10:55.77
Gary Benedik
You know transparency being one of our key pillars if we don't feel this is going to be mutually beneficial. We say thanks. But this is just something that we cannot put our full attention to therefore you probably should engage with other vendors or other partners to solve this problem right? The word impact is super subjective. We don't need to win every single client and be asked to work in every single search right? We're just trying to focus on where the relationships will be authentic and mutually beneficial.
11:25.75
Brad Owens
Sure That's fair and that's kind of the whole goal of that initial conversation right is to try and really come up with those and qualify it as fast as possible.
11:31.96
Gary Benedik
Um, yeah, yeah, and then you know that stems into like your delivery strategy right? Like if you're feeling some some pushback on. Maybe some of the coaching or some of the data that we provided maybe the delivery strategy is adjusted to support that client.
11:46.75
Brad Owens
He.
11:48.34
Gary Benedik
Like you know you talk about high touch low touch white glove etc nearhore onshore offshore cost of doing business. Maybe there's you know there's things you could do behind the scenes that will not impact the way you're servicing the client but I think you just need to be super transparent with the client On. What we see in the market and then you know help coach your teams or team internally to focus on where we're going to see success.
12:17.54
Brad Owens
Sure, Okay, ah given all that you've seen and with this sort of approach in mind then what do you feel like the the recruiting industry has to look forward to like what's coming up What is that next thing that they're going to have to need. To kind of prepare themselves for prepare their teams for what's coming.
12:38.88
Gary Benedik
Yeah, this is this is a great question and you know I wish I could predict the future. Um, what I do know is that I don't know what's gonna happen right? Um I think covid secured um you know uncertainty for the rest of. Of our lives right? So obviously there's there's key points that we deal with and we talk to with our clients and our candidates every day around like you know hybrid work challenges right? We see the news around some large retailers recording folks to go to headquarters which is impacting a ton of families and. Um, you know folks that have been working with some of these large fortune 500 companies for decades. Obviously there's things behind the scenes around like you know data privacy concerns like what's real What's not what's spam. Um, you know you're talking about like the rejuvenation of global tail acquisition.
13:33.79
Gary Benedik
Um, we had a we had a a meeting yesterday with a client that has 15260 global corporate recruiters and they're investing in upscaling that population of folks that's awesome right? So kind of.
13:51.11
Gary Benedik
Taking an internal approach and investing in your current workforce on the on the ta side which will impact the business lawyer the employer value prop hiring manager relationships not promoter score etc. Um, we're talking about. You know the ethical use of Ai.
14:09.89
Gary Benedik
Right? So you know it continues to play a significant role and we hear about it. We see it. We smell it we touch it. But you know there's still concerns around bias and transparency and accountability within using Ai in. Recruiting and then we also obviously like I just mentioned rescaling and upscaling is is something that we take pride in specifically within the parent company that just purchased my firm. You know we're building this intermediary between you know launching careers and finding game changing talent on the executive side. How do we get them from their. Early career to their stream job.
14:48.68
Brad Owens
I get I like that a lot. So I heard the keyword the ethical use of Ai. So yes I agree with you that there's a lot going on with it and there's a lot of people that have opinions about it and there's a lot of people that think. It's gonna be the new asbestos amazing thing. Um I for one feel like there's a whole lot of stuff that people need to learn about it first before they try and say all right. This is gonna change everything because what I've found in actually doing the technology implementations and helping people with this is nobody's data is in any sort of shape. That they can actually take advantage of most of what Ai can do so shut up about it. You can't even use it. But yes there is that part of is this even going to be ethical what you're trying to do. Um you mentioned the bias side. Ah.
15:29.29
Gary Benedik
To.
15:41.00
Brad Owens
What were you referring to when you're thinking about bias and Ai.
15:45.61
Gary Benedik
Well I mean um, let's just think of like for like for me personally, you know let's just say I like sports I'm from Chicago I like to eat food I like to to take the you know the trade into the city. You know it's it's it's. It's calculating every single decision. Every thought that I'm I am personally putting into the system right? So obviously there's a buffer and there's control right? But it's learning what I like and will that great bias on what I want or the people I need to hire for my firm. Or clients that we want to work with right? So I feel like um and you know we're we're all embracing this but the work that you're doing within any sort of Ai tool or projects is what you wanted to do. It's almost like the same question around. Data integrity right in like data governance right? So like your tools or your tech stack is going to be as good as the information you put into it and I feel like that's in parallel with this whole. Ai. Phenomenon that we're dealing with.
16:57.73
Brad Owens
Yeah people, forget like at some point someone has to train that and tell it what is a positive outcome and what is a negative outcome. Are you gonna be that person hey that's good. That's a lot of weight that's a lot of tough tough stuff to do. Um. You mentioned tech stack though I always make sure I ask someone this question when they jump on what tech in your life whether it's something to use for work whether it's something that you've run a business on or whatever. What's making your job easier today.
17:30.60
Gary Benedik
That is such a load of question. My friend um coffee all a technology right? So I mean oh I do I'll set I'll send you an email.
17:33.16
Brad Owens
Um, coffee That's good tech that's good tech if you've got a good coffee maker I'll take it as a tech thing as I can't find any better than Mr. Coffee drip.
17:47.63
Gary Benedik
Right? exactly? Um I'd say like you know around like if I could step my fingers and wake up and just have like the perfect tech stack which I'm hoping you can you can help me out with there right? but um is like specialization right? like specialized to to the way that I've actually.
17:55.71
Brad Owens
Sure.
18:06.68
Gary Benedik
Progressed my career from from like professional standpoint like I actually was just creating some prompts in chetchebt around like can you please separate professional from personal like is there any way we could have like a dual prompting experience. It says you know Gary. The workplace gary father and husband right? So keep those things separate but like specialization and personalization I think are are 2 key things for me. It's like the integration right? Bidirectionally things need to talk right? So the stack in my opinion should be smooth.
18:26.98
Brad Owens
Are.
18:42.73
Gary Benedik
It should be. You know, very robust when it comes to like the the etl process so things need to be moving like on demand all the time versus like you know every hour every day. Um service level is is a key component in my opinion. That's that's my opinion but service level. When hey I'm not I'm not I have a problem on the client side that's being driven through the tech who is my point of content that can help you with this versus sending and um, a message into a queue into a ticketing system with a 24 hour a so I'd see that that that is is really bigot in my decision making process when creating this tech stack. You know, obviously different tools and apps within the tech but to be able to talk to a human about a problem or a heccup or a bug at that time not saying it's it's reality and I get it right? We all have. Things to do and we all have certain sizes of customers that we that we respond to and report back to you. But um, you know it. Also you know from a leader on the on the recruitment agency side tools that create less clicks and less work. For my teams to be faster and more efficient, right? So there's there's applic tracking systems out there that support the recruiting industry on the agency side that speak a lot of good stuff. But when you get into the weeds and under the hood. It's it's actually.
20:19.67
Gary Benedik
More work to get that task completed.
20:22.50
Brad Owens
Yeah I've seen the same sort of thing they're like oh you can do all of these different types of things. But yeah, that still means you have to do all of those specific things inside the app like how are you going to take care of most of my work for me like tech should be able to do that admin stuff like I am a person I am fantastic at building human Relationships. You Tech are not how are you going to make my life to be able to build relationships. Better.
20:46.58
Gary Benedik
Yes, precisely And so the way that I look at this is like supply and demand right? Supply is the talent or the community of folks that you have that you will try to hopefully be matching to jobs. The demand is the party that's hiring people so that tech stack should be should not Wait. Or be focused on one side or the other more or less in my opinion I would prefer a stat that is hyperfocus with specialization Personalization. You know the integrations that create the best experience for the candidate. As well as the best experience with the hiring manager not either or where it's kind of off balance.
21:28.26
Brad Owens
Yeah, and that's the very first time I heard you start talking about that of you know the fully rounded recruiting focused tech stack I was like oh it gets it like he definitely wants to understand not only just yeah, make my business process better as an applicant tracking system. But. My gosh. There's so much more that goes into our world than just making sure you know what candidates applied to which job There's so much more. So I appreciate you coming on and at least ah helping people understand that.
21:51.36
Gary Benedik
Yeah. Yeah, and you know I'm super passionate about the candidate experience Brett as you know so you know when you have hundreds of thousands of candidates in your database just because you're not getting them a job. What other value can you bring to them from a community engagement perspective that is driven through the tech. That is productized that is almost self-servicing.
22:16.25
Brad Owens
We get that from a lot of other things that we deal with why would one of the biggest decisions that we're going to make in our lives of a new potential job. Why wouldn't that come with the same level of handholding and the same level of engagement and the same level of community building like it should. It should be a big part of that. So.
22:33.59
Gary Benedik
Yeah, because we all know those are great. Those are great conversations. Those are you know because then that starts to flip over to the demand side right? you create loyalty then they give me a you know the your best sales reps are your candidates that you're treating. Well.
22:35.89
Brad Owens
Love it.
22:40.22
Brad Owens
Yeah.
22:47.19
Brad Owens
Yes, oh my goodness I'm going to use that as the poll quote man I love it all right? Well anything else to leave the fellow recruiting universe with today any other points of wisdom you wanted to make sure you dropped.
22:55.14
Gary Benedik
Ah.
23:03.11
Gary Benedik
No, just I mean just be authentic, right? I think we're all dealing with our own. You know what outside the office with family and sickness and Joe this political landscape. You know, just be authentic and you know just respond to people and be yourself it. It. There is an ah roi there. So just.
23:24.11
Brad Owens
Yep, agreed and it's not what they're getting from a lot of others. So. It's a great differentiator. So really, really appreciate it everyone if you want to check out the notes for this episode you will find Gary's Linkedin please. Hit him up on Linkedin. Let him know that you heard him here and if you've got any other questions I'm sure he'll be authentic and do his best to answer as many as he can. So thank you all so much for listening to another episode of the transform recruiting podcast. You can find this episode and more at transformrecruiting.com got any ideas of topics. You want to see covered or any individuals that you know would make a good voice send them my way. It's hello at Brad Owens.com happy to have them on the show and share that voice with the audience until next time I will talk to you all soon. Thanks for listening.